Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

[krishnanspace]

Me and my friend were discussing about the co-ordinates today and we noticed one loophole.Major Briggs requests the co-ordinates from Hastings and the secretary.After Diane enters the co-ordinates on her phone,we know it leads to Twin Peaks.Now why would Major Briggs request them to get the co-ordinates that point to Twin Peaks itself??It would be like asking someone for their own home address.Major Briggs would himself be aware of such place.Its not like Twin Peaks is a very large place.Somethings seems very wrong.

Just curious, are you assuming that Diane has access to the CORRECT coordinates to type into her phone? It seemed so unlikely to me that Albert and Gordon would share the actual coordinates on Ruth's arm with Diane, considering they already suspected her of something fishy about this.

Albert takes a picture of Ruth's arm on his phone, then later presents Gordon (and Diane) with a printed photograph of that. Doesn't it seem more likely that Albert deliberately photoshopped the picture to give different coordinates to Diane and trick her (and whoever she's texting?)

If that's correct, it would explain that the coordinates DO lead elsewhere, and not in Twin Peaks.

(I haven't been paying as close attention to this as other people, so I may be missing something really obvious here).

Even if Albert gave Diane fake co-ordinates,why would he give the co-ordinates that lead to Twin Peaks?That would pose a threat to the people of twin peaks.

[bosguy1981]

Even if Albert gave Diane fake co-ordinates,why would he give the co-ordinates that lead to Twin Peaks?That would pose a threat to the people of twin peaks.

I'm not sure Gordon would be eager to protect the townspeople of Twin Peaks more so than any other place though, would he? And if the place Mr. C is looking for is NOT in Twin Peaks, then Gordon and Albert are accomplishing the most important thing which is send him any place other than the portal or whatever he's looking for.

Maybe Twin Peaks is the most ideal place to send Mr. C too, because he'll be so quickly recognized. I dunno -- I just can't figure out why Gordon and Albert would be intentionally leading Mr. C to the correct location, especially if they are not already there, guarding it or whatnot.

[sewhite2000]

If Major Briggs requested Hastings to get coordinates for him, then I assume he didn't know where those coordinates would lead?

Anybody have a firm grasp on what exactly is at these much-talked-about coordinates? A portal to the Black Lodge? Are the coordinates (the ones shown to Diane, anyway) Glastonbury Grove? I don't know why Evil Coop is desperate to get to such a portal. I thought he didn't want to go back in the Black Lodge! Maybe because he could bring something else evil out of it?

Now, Evil Coop has his own set of coordinates, but we have no idea if they're any more real than the ones Diane saw. Ray was pretty smug, even in his desperate situation, gloating to Evil Coop, "What makes you think I'd even give you the real coordinates?" or words to that effect. But he gives him some kind of coordinates, anyway. Could Albert/Gordon/Tammy, Diane and Evil Coop be heading to three different places with three different sets of coordinates? My head is spinning ...

[Mr. Reindeer]

I don't know why Evil Coop is desperate to get to such a portal. I thought he didn't want to go back in the Black Lodge! Maybe because he could bring something else evil out of it?

I assumed he planned to permanently destroy/close the portal somehow so the other spirits can't get to him.

[Ashok]

If Major Briggs requested Hastings to get coordinates for him, then I assume he didn't know where those coordinates would lead?

Anybody have a firm grasp on what exactly is at these much-talked-about coordinates? A portal to the Black Lodge? Are the coordinates (the ones shown to Diane, anyway) Glastonbury Grove? I don't know why Evil Coop is desperate to get to such a portal. I thought he didn't want to go back in the Black Lodge! Maybe because he could bring something else evil out of it?

My first guess was that the coordinates actually might lead to the White Lodge? It would seem like a perfect failsafe to avoid returning to the Black Lodge and could explain why the Giant said "it's in our house now".

[alreadygoneplaces]

We can read the Shelly-Becky switchback scenes similarly. In the "present" we see Becky going nuts and almost killing her mother in her rage at Stephen's behavior.

Then we shift back a day or two to see that Shelly had tried to help Becky by giving her a piece of cherry pie, and we realize how this had zero effect on Becky's state of well being -- her mother's act of kindness had no real lasting power. The cherry pie had no magical effects that could make such dysfunction better.

This time shift criticizes what we had been taking at face value in the Dougie story line, and in Twin Peaks in general -- that there's any inherent goodness in material enjoyment. This almost seems to suggest that Dougie's current pie-glazed happiness is unsustainable.

So these time shifts can create interesting meanings when we read how they work with the stories themes and symbols. There's no reason to assume the laws of nature are actually being transgressed, even if such a thing is possible in Twin Peaks.

As much as I agree with your final point, that Shelly/Becky scene wasn't out of sequence, she had the grazes on her elbows from getting thrown off the car.

Personally, I'm not in the crowd that thinks L/F were expertly at ease with and in control of managing this vast multitude of plot threads and characters. It more comes across to me like they've desperately wrestled with all of this along with the often conflicting needs of major variables such as structure, rhythm, pace (on both an episodic and an overall 18-hour basis); which information needs to be withheld and revealed (and when), let alone the more minor timeline/continuity details. This is part and parcel of such an unprecedented and ambitious project, and I think for the most part, they've just about managed to make it work. I do think though that people occasionally need to guard themselves against the tendency to immediately jump to or construct whichever explanation will best vindicate the 'great artist' when any potential problems arise in the work- a lot is riding on the final episodes as to how it all works structurally, let's ride it out and then see how it fits together at the end of the day. My feeling so far, as it comes, is that they've handled it all pretty well, but there have been moments where it feels a little at sea structurally (not least in episode 12). The argument that it's just as Lynch intended it is (in my opinion) not an argument of great substance or relevance, and is actually somewhat tautological...

[Cappy]

To add to the idea of Sarah being bug girl. Put headphones on and listen to end of Part 8, a few seconds before the end credits begin, and listen to the horse neighing. Horse = Sarah's Visions.

Yeah, I generally don't think Sarah is the bug girl from the 1950's... but it is hard to argue with the horse neighing sound. I don't know if it is Sarah, but if it is any character, it would be her.

The main reason why I don't think it is Sarah is simply that I don't think the frog-bug was Laura. Although the more I think of it... it is kind of fun to think of Laura as being the offspring of pure fear (BOB via Leland) and pure hope (The Fireman/Giant/??????? via Sarah), and her entire life as a microcosm of the conflict between the two. Maybe Laura was half BOB and half whatever else, and eventually her good side prevailed.

But if the frog-bug carrying Laura was some agent of good, and Laura was diametrically opposed to BOB, then why were the Woodsmen aiding the bug-frog in finding a host? I was reading the Woodsmen as being agents of BOB, kind of a cult that worships him. But could the Woodsmen possibly be some neutral force, one that aims to protect BOB and Laura equally? We still don't know much about them.

[wxray]

The main reason why I don't think it is Sarah is simply that I don't think the frog-bug was Laura. Although the more I think of it... it is kind of fun to think of Laura as being the offspring of pure fear (BOB via Leland) and pure hope (The Fireman/Giant/??????? via Sarah), and her entire life as a microcosm of the conflict between the two. Maybe Laura was half BOB and half whatever else, and eventually her good side prevailed.

But if the frog-bug carrying Laura was some agent of good, and Laura was diametrically opposed to BOB, then why were the Woodsmen aiding the bug-frog in finding a host? I was reading the Woodsmen as being agents of BOB, kind of a cult that worships him. But could the Woodsmen possibly be some neutral force, one that aims to protect BOB and Laura equally? We still don't know much about them.

This "Laura from frog-bug" thing held me up too for a long time. But now I don't think the frog bug and Laura are directly related. The bug didn't make Sarah pregnant. Laura was born somewhere in the early 70's. The frog bug didn't result in Laura directly.

However, I look at it as a means of possession. Perhaps the frog-bug influence lead Sarah to Leland in some way.

[alreadygoneplaces]

To add to the idea of Sarah being bug girl. Put headphones on and listen to end of Part 8, a few seconds before the end credits begin, and listen to the horse neighing. Horse = Sarah's Visions.

Yeah, I generally don't think Sarah is the bug girl from the 1950's... but it is hard to argue with the horse neighing sound. I don't know if it is Sarah, but if it is any character, it would be her.

I'm not saying the bug girl is or isn't Sarah*, but the horse isn't exclusively associated with her, we know at least Cooper has seen it too.

*Though I really don't think the bug has anything to with Laura. I'm still sticking to my guess that the bug is LMFAP, although no-one else shares this thought!

Forgot to mention -- Richard slinking unexpectedly out of the ranks of Renzo's men to stare at the screen was almost on par with the Woodsmen descending on Mr. C. Gloriously creepy, unexpected and snakelike. Farron is joining the ranks of Hopper, Blake and DaFoe as an all-time DKL villain.

He's been excellent. That character is so effective because however unhinged, malicious and aggressive he is; however much rage he desperately projects- he isn't at all naturally intimidating. Which only makes him all the more dangerous.

[Cappy]

Well, there is also the Jumping Man from FWWM. The frog-bug thing jumped like him. That character might play a larger role in the Lodge-spirit-hierarchy than any of us realized.

[DamnFineCreamedCorn]

He's been excellent. That character is so effective because however unhinged, malicious and aggressive he is; however much rage he desperately projects- he isn't at all naturally intimidating. Which only makes him all the more dangerous.

Yes. Richard is interesting because while he's volatile, he's also intimidated by an evidently greater menace (Red), and he can act and sound just like a kid. Listen to him outside Miriam's trailer before she informs him of the letter. His "I just wanna talk" sounds almost vulnerable.

But I'm more interested in Red. And that's chiefly because Richard, someone we've seen commit terrible acts, was so scared of him.

[zeronumber]

Does anyone think they'll ever talk about Judy...at all? We've seen all this dialogue surrounding Jefferies but have yet to have a single reference to Judy

I sort of hope not. It's an intriguing and tempting idea, but the Blue Rose and the ring have been a tad de-mystified to me by the way the Return has utilized them. I sort of enjoy Judy as a tantalizing non sequitir.

I will make the conjecture that Judy is none other than that very same Agent who uttered the eponymous "Blue Rose..." before she died~

( ...and i feel that this may not be verified in TPTR but ideed adressed in Frost's Final Dossier ~)

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[SpookyDollhouse]

My biggest question moreso than any y'all propose: HOW IS COOPER GETTING BACK TO TWIN PEAKS??

I'm preparing for some kind of intense mindscrew, or maybe I'm just being hopeful.

[alreadygoneplaces]

My biggest question moreso than any y'all propose: HOW IS COOPER GETTING BACK TO TWIN PEAKS??

I'm preparing for some kind of intense mindscrew, or maybe I'm just being hopeful.

It could still be that even though the Fuscos ignored the information they pulled, it could still have been flagged on the FBI's system that there'd been a hit on Cooper's fingerprints in Las Vegas...

[Framed_Angel]

Does anyone think they'll ever talk about Judy...at all? We've seen all this dialogue surrounding Jefferies but have yet to have a single reference to Judy

I sort of hope not. It's an intriguing and tempting idea, but the Blue Rose and the ring have been a tad de-mystified to me by the way the Return has utilized them. I sort of enjoy Judy as a tantalizing non sequitir.

I will make the conjecture that Judy is none other than that very same Agent who uttered the eponymous "Blue Rose..." before she died~

I don't recall mention of the woman who uttered "blue rose", as Albert explained it, being an agent. I thought I heard him say she was a victim or casualty in one of the cases. However, I'm intrigued with the idea she was an agent who did in fact die while saying those words. A colleague whose dying words stay in the minds of those witnessing her death might have more bearing on their decision to pursue a special secret task force in her memory.

Did you hear Albert say it was an agent? I can't go re-watch at the moment Google (naturally) isn't helping me (but that's probably cause I'm not searching the right way)~