Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

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writersblock
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by writersblock »

Rudagger wrote:I see some debate about the time jumping in this episode.

I'm pretty sure it was just some difficult editing decision made when cutting it into 18 parts. Sometimes thematic stuff is more important, sometimes you want very eventful stuff to all happen in the same episode (ala Part 11). I imagine that was the most difficult aspect of cutting this thing down. And so, that's how you get stuff like Bobby/Ed that chronologically would've been a few parts ago, but, for whatever reason just didn't fit. I think if there's one thing this show would've especially benefitted from being on say Netflix, rather than Showtime, is the ability to have highly various runtime lengths for each part, so, it would've given the freedom to have a 40 minute part, and a 1 hour ten minute part, with various frequency (obviously cable shows are able to do this on the high end, but, not usually on the low end, I'm not sure I've ever seen a premium cable series that is billed as hour-long drop below the fifty minute mark). I do find it a bit odd that they didn't just ADR Bobby's "today" into "yesterday", or something. But, Lynch probably just didn't care that much and figured it unimportant (since we're able to suss it out anyway).

I've enjoyed both of these past two parts on rewatch when I know the cadence and am not stressing about how much time is left, but, they did make for some underwhelming initial viewing, in my opinion, if just because we're in the home stretch and it feels a bit odd to just now be seeing low-key Ed/Norma stuff (which while great, I think would've played better 10 parts ago, when there was a bit less urgency). I think that's also an aspect that would've played better with the binge model, as each hour becomes a bit less precious. I mean, I do love being able to chew on each episode for a week, don't get me wrong, but there are obviously pros/cons to each release style.
The way I look at the low key stuff is that, just because we have a feeling of urgency and that everything is about to hit the fan based on what we know... the characters don't necessarily know that. Why shouldn't Norma be procrastinating about the RR franchise? She doesn't know woodsmen are crushing heads and Bob is trying to get into the White Lodge (or whatever he is trying to do) - life goes on. It's frustrating to watch because we know so much. And that makes it kinda cool to me.

It's like driving down a road and seeing pigeons in the street. They all see the danger and fly off... but there's usually one nonchalant pigeon who's thinking, "Where did the guys go? This food's all mine now..."

Generally, I slow the car down and swerve a little if I can. Maybe Bob won't be that nice :)
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by Northman »

I have to say i found the James scene very deliberately void of ironical distance. It was a genuinely touching moment where he was singing to someone he is in love with and her reaction is beautiful. Such scenes are of course always easy to ridicule or mistakenly suspect as comedy. The scene was a stark contrast to much of the rest of the episode - a report on dysfunctional relationships or lack of contact.

AV and EW have written 2 wonderfully insightfull reviews of part 13, partly different in their interpretation and i was happy to note that AV largely agree with how i felt about James singing.

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/twin-peaks ... ion-259086

http://ew.com/recap/twin-peaks-season-3-episode-13/
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by sylvia_north »

AgentEcho wrote:I hope there's no connection between those use of spotlights, but it is probably worth noting that Sonny Jim is the only young boy to appear in the show who hasn't yet witnessed horrible violence or been a victim of it, something that is emerging as a theme in the show.
Oh, no... but the tear Coop sheds for him when he's acting weird as shit. Maybe he saw that he had been a victim, or will be. I hope he just saw a boy who's dad was checked out when he was needed, and Coop has filled that void. If you're the offspring of a manufactured being, does that make you half manufactured? Gifted, or damned? :cry:

The horse is also in the spotlight. And the Giant appeared in the spotlight on Roadhouse stage and in room 315
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writersblock
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by writersblock »

I have to say that I much preferred James singing it in the return to the original in the series.

But, saying that, it did lead into a great Maddie scene...
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sylvia_north
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by sylvia_north »

claaa7 wrote:this track from Dean Hurley's new Twin Peaks FX Soundtrack was credited in this episode.. anyone remember when it was featured?

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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by AgentEcho »

sewhite2000 wrote:
AgentEcho wrote:I hope there's no connection between those use of spotlights, but it is probably worth noting that Sonny Jim is the only young boy to appear in the show who hasn't yet witnessed horrible violence or been a victim of it, something that is emerging as a theme in the show.
The kid who shot up the window of the Double R may have committed some violence (does property damage count as violence?), but I would say he hasn't been shown to have either witnessed violence or been a victim of it. Still, I guess he could still make your list with an asterisk, maybe. It was only by stupid luck he didn't kill someone.
I forgot about that kid, but I definitely think he fits the theme in a way that Sonny Jim doesn't yet.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by claaa7 »

sylvia_north wrote:
claaa7 wrote:this track from Dean Hurley's new Twin Peaks FX Soundtrack was credited in this episode.. anyone remember when it was featured?

Mr C vs Ray
thanks.. there's been a lot of effective stuff throughout the series that constantly blurs the line between score and sound effects
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Dreamy Audrey
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by Dreamy Audrey »

sewhite2000 wrote:Dreamy Audrey wrote:
"Or maybe, if the scenes we see aren't chronological, the Jacoby and Nadine scene could be seven years in the future from now and they were talking about the storm that is about to happen for us soon but already happened for them ("Is it future or is it past?"). IIRC, Jacoby and Nadine aren't directly linked to any other characters or plotlines as of now, so there is no indication when their scenes take place."



We saw Jerry also watching Jacoby's first broadcast presumably not long before he realized he was lost in the woods. So, I don't think Jacoby and Nadine are meeting seven years in the future! Nadine's had that shovel hanging in her window for seven years, and Jacoby has just now seen it?
I said "directly". Jerry watching a show isn't directly meeting Jacoby. Besides, we don't know when Jerry's scene was either, because he was wearing different clothes than in his other scenes, look at the episode stills Ashok posted in the pictures thread:
Image Image
Where do you get the idea that Nadine's shovel would have been in her window for seven years? If her scenes take place in the future, we don't know if the shovel is already in her window in the present. She could have put the shovel there recently (in her time, not in the present). And even if it had been there for years, if Jacoby hasn't seen her for years, it's possible he hasn't seen the shovel. Maybe it was hidden by the moving curtains or maybe this was the first time he ever passed her shop.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by Manwith »

krishnanspace wrote:Me and my friend were discussing about the co-ordinates today and we noticed one loophole.Major Briggs requests the co-ordinates from Hastings and the secretary.After Diane enters the co-ordinates on her phone,we know it leads to Twin Peaks.Now why would Major Briggs request them to get the co-ordinates that point to Twin Peaks itself??It would be like asking someone for their own home address.Major Briggs would himself be aware of such place.Its not like Twin Peaks is a very large place.Somethings seems very wrong.
It could be a very SPECIFIC place in the woods in Twin Peaks, or a very SPECIFIC building in Twin Peaks (say, the Palmer house.) Briggs may not have known the specific place he needed to go to. Or he needed the coordinates to get there from another dimension, he can't go via conventional roads.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

sylvia_north wrote:
AgentEcho wrote:I hope there's no connection between those use of spotlights, but it is probably worth noting that Sonny Jim is the only young boy to appear in the show who hasn't yet witnessed horrible violence or been a victim of it, something that is emerging as a theme in the show.
Oh, no... but the tear Coop sheds for him when he's acting weird as shit. Maybe he saw that he had been a victim, or will be. I hope he just saw a boy who's dad was checked out when he was needed, and Coop has filled that void. If you're the offspring of a manufactured being, does that make you half manufactured? Gifted, or damned?
I also thought that Coop was crying because he was somewhat conscious of the life he had missed out on, lacking a child of his own due to 25 years of missing time.
I felt it was a combination of that, and looking at the kid like he is his own son since he shares some of Coop's DNA.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

LateReg wrote:
sylvia_north wrote:Oh, no... but the tear Coop sheds for him when he's acting weird as shit. Maybe he saw that he had been a victim, or will be. I hope he just saw a boy who's dad was checked out when he was needed, and Coop has filled that void. If you're the offspring of a manufactured being, does that make you half manufactured? Gifted, or damned?
I also thought that Coop was crying because he was somewhat conscious of the life he had missed out on, lacking a child of his own due to 25 years of missing time.
I felt it was a combination of that, and looking at the kid like he is his own son since he shares some of Coop's DNA.
^This. But also, more generally speaking, I think there's an abstract sort of sadness you occasionally feel as an adult, looking at a child. Once in awhile, you're struck by a memory/flash of your childhood, and you reflect on your own loss of innocence and wonder...and you realize that the child you're looking at will inevitably go through the same journey. It's actually pretty damn sad, and something DKL may currently experience looking at his own 4-year-old kid Lula. I didn't find the scene weird at all. It was one of the more human moments in a DKL work.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
LateReg wrote:
sylvia_north wrote:Oh, no... but the tear Coop sheds for him when he's acting weird as shit. Maybe he saw that he had been a victim, or will be. I hope he just saw a boy who's dad was checked out when he was needed, and Coop has filled that void. If you're the offspring of a manufactured being, does that make you half manufactured? Gifted, or damned?
I also thought that Coop was crying because he was somewhat conscious of the life he had missed out on, lacking a child of his own due to 25 years of missing time.
I felt it was a combination of that, and looking at the kid like he is his own son since he shares some of Coop's DNA.
^This. But also, more generally speaking, I think there's an abstract sort of sadness you occasionally feel as an adult, looking at a child. Once in awhile, you're struck by a memory/flash of your childhood, and you reflect on your own loss of innocence and wonder...and you realize that the child you're looking at will inevitably go through the same journey. It's actually pretty damn sad, and something DKL may currently experience looking at his own 4-year-old kid Lula. I didn't find the scene weird at all. It was one of the more human moments in a DKL work.
Excellent point! I totally agree, and it is so very sad....and tender.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by sewhite2000 »

Dreamy Audrey wrote:
sewhite2000 wrote:Dreamy Audrey wrote:
"Or maybe, if the scenes we see aren't chronological, the Jacoby and Nadine scene could be seven years in the future from now and they were talking about the storm that is about to happen for us soon but already happened for them ("Is it future or is it past?"). IIRC, Jacoby and Nadine aren't directly linked to any other characters or plotlines as of now, so there is no indication when their scenes take place."



We saw Jerry also watching Jacoby's first broadcast presumably not long before he realized he was lost in the woods. So, I don't think Jacoby and Nadine are meeting seven years in the future! Nadine's had that shovel hanging in her window for seven years, and Jacoby has just now seen it?
I said "directly". Jerry watching a show isn't directly meeting Jacoby. Besides, we don't know when Jerry's scene was either, because he was wearing different clothes than in his other scenes, look at the episode stills Ashok posted in the pictures thread:
Image Image
Where do you get the idea that Nadine's shovel would have been in her window for seven years? If her scenes take place in the future, we don't know if the shovel is already in her window in the present. She could have put the shovel there recently (in her time, not in the present). And even if it had been there for years, if Jacoby hasn't seen her for years, it's possible he hasn't seen the shovel. Maybe it was hidden by the moving curtains or maybe this was the first time he ever passed her shop.

I got the idea because I think every bit of evidence presented to us is showing the action to all be taking place within relatively the same window of time, which is the 'present day' of the show. Nadine and Jerry are both watching the same Dr. Amp broadcast. Nadine has a shovel in her window. All due respect, I think your idea that Jacoby and Nadine are conversing seven years in the future is incorrect.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by sewhite2000 »

Also, Jerry called Ben while he was in the woods after watching Jacoby, and Ben seems to be in present day.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Post by Dreamy Audrey »

But the phone call was a different scene, Jerry was wearing a different costume, so we don't know for sure if these scenes take place directly after each other. When Jerry called Ben, he was wearing the same shirt he wore when he visited Ben in his office in Part 1, but when Jerry is watching Jacoby, he is wearing a different shirt. It seems like Jerry's scenes aren't in chronological order, similar to Lucy, who switches back and forth between two outfits in Parts 9 and 10.
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