Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

[Taperecorder]

Everybody stop saying "trolling", or define what you mean by that. I thought that was someone who went on the Internet just to stir up shit. Would one of the 67 people on here who claim Lynch is trolling explain what they mean? Because none of you have. Because he plays with audience expectations or because he returns to things most viewers hate, like that song? I don't really understand how that defines as trolling. This is HIS forum, you know. He didn't get on your website and start making trouble.

Yeah, I don't understand how recreating an iconic Twin Peaks moment is trolling. I know some people out there hate the original 'Just You' scene but I don't, plenty of other people don't, and Lynch doesn't. So I don't understand this trolling comment either.

[BlueLodge]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned yet that the flooring in the Red Room that Ray was sent to was red and white rather than black and white. Is this a different lodge?

Also, seeing as the original Dougie took the ring with him to the Red Room, yet (assuming it was the same ring, and there aren't multiples) it turned up at the prison soon after, Evil Coop should know sending it to the Red Room wouldn't get rid of it. Was the purpose more to trap Ray there as a punishment for crossing him?

[Taperecorder]

- I loved the ending and I agree with LostintheMovies : it was better to have Ed scene after James's song, because the beauty of Ed looking at the road is precisely the deception and the melancholy.... nothing happened. And that's the point, I guess.

You should watch that Big Ed scene again. Something DOES happen. Something HUGE!

[yaxomoxay]

- I loved the ending and I agree with LostintheMovies : it was better to have Ed scene after James's song, because the beauty of Ed looking at the road is precisely the deception and the melancholy.... nothing happened. And that's the point, I guess.

You should watch that Big Ed scene again. Something DOES happen. Something HUGE!

Agreed!
It took me a while, but when I saw what was happening...!!


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[zeronumber]

The Audrey dilemna was most intriguing here.

http://dilemna.info

Still think Jacoby's random reference to a big storm is odd though.

I think so too. We seemed to see the start of a big storm in one of the ambient TP scenes this ep, & -- as other viewers noticed -- there was a storm mentioned/shown in the LV weather (during one of the Mitchum brother scenes)

Did we both hear the same version of the song? Wow, it was painful. A funny homage- but still very painful.

I love the song and cried during this performance of it. Truly beautiful, surprising, and perfectly placed this deep into the show.

I love how this time round with 'Just You', the opinions are exactly as divisive with the first time. Stuck in a time loop indeed.

However, I learned who Cassius Clay fought on March 13, 1963 - one fight before Henry Cooper. It's been called the fight of the year: Cassius Clay vs Doug Jones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Jones

Yup. Doug Jones. First, Muhammad Ali fought Doug Jones, then he fought Cooper on the day listed on the big Battling Bud poster.

Sycamore, I didn't put a lot of stock in this theory when you first aired it, but you've definitely raised my eye-brows well above their usual level. Excellent work.

Thank you kindly for skooling me on this.



( i also pronounce whale, "hwale" and the letter "H" , "haytch".)

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[Framed_Angel]

Everybody stop saying "trolling", or define what you mean by that. I thought that was someone who went on the Internet just to stir up shit. Would one of the 67 people on here who claim Lynch is trolling explain what they mean? Because none of you have. Because he plays with audience expectations or because he returns to things most viewers hate, like that song? I don't really understand how that defines as trolling....

From the definition I first pulled up, the parts that apply to Lynch/ Frost getting-a-laugh out of messing with their viewers' expectations would be:

FROM MERRIAM WEBSTER ONLINE : "...posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional ...

I agree the word 'trolling' is strong by definition and more typically inflammatory as well as disruptive in connotation, based on the usual context.

I believe we're seeing the term evolve nowadays. I can't say why exactly. WHen I saw that a man was about to have his dandruff-y shoulders massaged I reacted "Ewwww" and then "Oh, Lynch, pffft!" It felt like a Lynchian juxtaposition to me .
When we got a seeming pointless interlude of Hutch & Chantal bantering about Mormons when we've been led to believe they are torture-savoring, ruthless, stealthy killers -- I call that disappointment with a artist/ storyteller since it's already established Chantal likes to snack, we already know they're headed to Nevada, ugh.

So on a scale of 1-10 with dandruff-massage as "1" and useless footage/ weird filler/ other annoyances-one-would-question-of-any-director then I'd say 'trolling' is achieved around a 5 level. You might be annoyed, but you can still laugh. The scene or fragment may be loaded with meaning or none at all and both at once. But unlike stand-alone Dadaism I think there's an extra layer of "provoke" purpose.
Maybe there should be a different word for when a production and the creators behind it do some extra level of messing-around with its viewers, not malicious in intent but maybe "trolling" is seeing a new iteration like the word "bitch" did, within certain contexts.

Or just think of the use of the term as a blend of 'trolling' and 'rick-rolling" in the case of James' stage scene!

[Jacob]

What do we think of the significance of the ring now? Why did Mr. C make Ray put it on? And why did it disappear after his body went into the Red Room?

As I've understood it since FWWM, the ring probably dooms the wearer to death, and definitely ensures that they're taken to the lodge in short order (Jeffries, Desmond, Dougie), or upon death (Teresa Banks, Laura, and now Ray). The wearing of the ring seems to guarantee the garmonbozia of the individual to the lawful elements of the lodge (MIKE/Gerard, the Arm, maybe others). In the case of Laura, it also seems to guarantee against possession by BOB.

The contract between the chaotic BOB and the lawful MIKE seems to involve BOB being a harvester of garmonbozia. My question now is why the doppelganger had Ray wear the ring. The doppelganger didn't follow the lodge rule about going back in 25 years after his escape, so why does he seemingly obey the ring contract?

In case anyone thinks I'm being too literal in reading the lodge "mythology", please realize that I'm just looking at it from one angle, and taking that as far as I can. I've always looked at the lodge from multiple angles. Ultimately it might have no rules and might not make sense, but there are things to understand about it which tie directly into the story, so I don't think pondering this is harmful if one realizes that it's just one way of looking at things.

So I think he made Ray wear the ring for 2 purposes. 1. To possibly harvest garmanbozia. 2. More importantly, he wanted to give Mike and presumably Jefferies who might be working with Mike a bit of fuck you. Here is your assassin nice try. Just to let them know they've clearly failed.

Yeah, that's how I understand it as well. Especially that Mr. C kills Ray just after saying "I know where it is" (talking about "the Dutchman"). It's like he's sending Ray precisely where "Jeffries" is...

And I agree with Panapaok about Bowie. I'm still hoping for one scene with him. We know Jeffries had originally a big part on the script. So maybe Lynch and Frost, knowing Bowie was ill, reduced the part, making the character as an enigmatic "man behind the curtain"-type but still managed to shoot a few scenes with Bowie himself for a pay-off a the end ? I mean it's weird : if you recast the character, you recast it fully and you don't hide the guy. And if you don't want to show the character at all, well, you stop talking about him. So I'm still hoping for something...
Or maybe the giant aka "???" is Philip Jeffries !

- I loved the ending and I agree with LostintheMovies : it was better to have Ed scene after James's song, because the beauty of Ed looking at the road is precisely the deception and the melancholy.... nothing happened. And that's the point, I guess.

You should watch that Big Ed scene again. Something DOES happen. Something HUGE!

Agreed!
It took me a while, but when I saw what was happening...!!

Yeah, I already saw it on the previous pages ! But it's so discreet to me that it doesn't change anything about the mood and the meaning of the scene itself. But it's true it may be a big clue about what's really happening in Twin Peaks. Mother is coming...

[boske]

And I agree with Panapaok about Bowie. I'm still hoping for one scene with him. We know Jeffries had originally a big part on the script. So maybe Lynch and Frost, knowing Bowie was ill, reduced the part, making the character as an enigmatic "man behind the curtain"-type but still managed to shoot a few scenes with Bowie himself for a pay-off a the end ? I mean it's weird : if you recast the character, you recast it fully and you don't hide the guy. And if you don't want to show the character at all, well, you stop talking about him. So I'm still hoping for something...
Or maybe the giant aka "???" is Philip Jeffries !

I hope someone will remember what I am talking about here. Before the pricipal shooting began a rumor had circulated that Twin Peaks was shooting in New York City, and there may have been a mention of Rancho Rosa, or some similar name. People got their hopes up and then it was all opaquely denied, explaining it all due to an unrelated commercial being filmed. It would be something if that was indeed the real deal, but I am just repeating what I heard way back then.

Is there anybody else here that remembers this rumor?

[douglasb]

Is it what Ed is eating? I've rewatched it 3 times and can't see anything else.

[yaxomoxay]

Is it what Ed is eating? I've rewatched it 3 times and can't see anything else.

Spoiler:

Check the reflection, very closely, between the two pumps.

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[Soolsma]

Is it what Ed is eating? I've rewatched it 3 times and can't see anything else.

Spoiler:

Check the reflection, very closely, between the two pumps.

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??? two cars passing?

[yaxomoxay]

Is it what Ed is eating? I've rewatched it 3 times and can't see anything else.

Spoiler:

Check the reflection, very closely, between the two pumps.

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Nope look closer.
I will spoil it here for you.

Spoiler:

Between the two cars passing.
Check Ed's reflection the mirror.
The reflection moves, and "glitches", and does something that Ed is not doing. It's not easy to see, but once you see it, you can't unsee it. Similar to the door's glitch after Laura appeared to Gordon.

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[ravingnightmare]

Pretty good episode. Two things needs to be addressed:

1) That Sarah Palmer scene could have been used a lot better. Along with Big Ed's at the end scene. I am like say something!

2)

btw, i'm now 100% convinced we are not getting our cooper back. this will be dougie vs. dopple till the end. maybe we get 10 seconds...maybe.

This alone makes A LOT of the good stuff happening this season quite forgettable.. (except for ep . A lot of us have waited over 25 years to see Dale. His zombie like state of mind will last at least until the last episode, mark my words. It's a tremendous tremendous shame when you think about it. Feels like having a cold soul. Empty and colorless.

[ravingnightmare]

Pretty good episode. Two things needs to be addressed:

1) That Sarah Palmer scene could have been used a lot better. Along with Big Ed's at the end scene. I am like say something!

2)

btw, i'm now 100% convinced we are not getting our cooper back. this will be dougie vs. dopple till the end. maybe we get 10 seconds...maybe.

This alone makes A LOT of the good stuff happening this season quite forgettable.. (except for ep . A lot of us have waited over 25 years to see Dale. His zombie like state of mind will last at least until the last episode, mark my words. It's a tremendous tremendous shame when you think about it. Feels like having a cold soul. Empty and colorless.

[Jacob]

Basically it goes from :

To :


It's easier to save the two pics and see them one after the other to see the "thing".