Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Taperecorder
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Taperecorder » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:15 am

DirkG wrote:
LateReg wrote: there isn't actually a pattern..


Of course I know that... and episode 8 (to take the most obvious example) could NEVER have ended with going back to the roadhouse. BUT the ending with the band is the STANDARD ending and here it didn't warrant a deviation. The Ed scene was powerful indeed, yes. But the music was mythical. James deserved to be treated like standard performances at the roadhouse have been treated. And end credits have their biggest impact with music almost always, 99% of the time, this absolutely no exception.


In your opinion "...end credits have their biggest impact with music almost always, 99% of the time, this absolutely no exception."
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Cipher
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cipher » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:21 am

mtwentz wrote:Which begs the question- if DoppelCoop has super strength, does the Good Coop/Dougie also have it? Or is it the addition of Bob as a parasite that provides the extra strenth?

To me, this potentially silly revelation tracks perfectly well with DoppelCoop's (and other Lodge entities') supernatural manipulation of energy/electricity. What provides human muscle its force?

Leland-Bob never displayed any superhuman abilities, but the Woodsmen certainly have. I think there's a justifiable difference, to get pedantic about the series' lore, between those types of entities, including a doppelganger, which is probably never meant to exit the Lodge, and Bob in possession of a human.

Also, doppelgangers are classic folkloric monsters and to be feared for a reason.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby anthoto1 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:24 am

Could Charlie be somekind of therapist for Audrey ? The scene reminds me a bit of Shutter Island and Charlie's somehow has the body language of a psychiatrist. :lol:
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Hockey Mask » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:25 am

Cipher wrote:
mtwentz wrote:Which begs the question- if DoppelCoop has super strength, does the Good Coop/Dougie also have it? Or is it the addition of Bob as a parasite that provides the extra strenth?

To me, this potentially silly revelation tracks perfectly well with DoppelCoop's (and other Lodge entities') supernatural manipulation of energy/electricity. What provides human muscle its force?

Leland-Bob never displayed any superhuman abilities, but the Woodsmen certainly have. I think there's a justifiable difference, to get pedantic about the series' lore, between those types of entities, including a doppelganger, which is probably never meant to exit the Lodge, and Bob in possession of a human.

Also, doppelgangers are classic folkloric monsters and to be feared for a reason.

Dougie-Coop has extra strength. He has the ability to squeeze someone's hand off.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:28 am

Hester Prynne wrote:I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about this episode. I can see a lot of people liked it, and there were some great moments, but honestly, it's starting to lose some of its mojo for me. Hate to sound like I'm losing the faith - I just don't know where this is going anymore.
Nah, you're not the only one.
It seemed to me like there was almost zero plot advancement. You could say Duncan's hit on Dougie reached a conclusion -- after going from one to the next different directions -- and shifted the danger zone toward Anthony's fate in the balance.
There's the departure of a (to me) significant player, Ray, but I could see his death coming and could tell who would win the arm wrestle. If Ray has more screen time in the Lodge I won't mind. The actor's face is so unusual. But it frustrated me waiting for him to struggle to get out of his pocket -- what, did he have a weapon? -- no, the coordinates 'written down." I thought he'd earlier stated he had memorized them. Actually, that could be interesting if he handed Mr C some bogus coordinates -- but following Mr C along a misdirected path I just don't see this season having time to spend more on unless it's become its' own self-fulfilling joke.

We got more new questions ("What is 'Dutchmans'", "What was Richard doing in Montana") for us to ponder than answers with that stretch.

Sarah Palmer's TV's loop repetition made me want to scream and the shop talk between Norma and Walter -- again, for me was all predictable and boring and too long.

Dr. Jacoby and Nadine meeting up I figure could lead to some kind of development. Audrey & Charlie: again more questions than answers.

Nice to see Grant Goodeve who has aged well! And John Savage who has aged... interestingly?
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Pyaan123 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:30 am

Dougie Coop has the power to set right what is wrong. I mean he made someone has a change of heart by giving a massage (unlike the face massage evil Coop gave that led to death).
It sounds like this: tsk tsk ks
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:30 am

I liked this episode - mostly - but the Norma/RR franchise thing seems awfully soapy to introduce this deep into the story. Sure, it may have 'Ed implications' but it would have been ideal to drop in much earlier. In many ways it was the most 'old TP' scene we've had so far.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Panapaok » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:34 am

Really great episode. Some great plot advancement with the doppelgänger. Genuinely shocked and intrigued to see Richard appear there. Also, after all this Jeffries build-up, I really hope that Bowie will somehow appear. Anything else will be a bummer. The DougieCoop scenes were also wonderful, especially his entrance with the Mitchums and the girls. Tom Sizemore was great too.

The whole Audrey thing is quite intreresting. I felt certain that it was her real life but something is fishy there. I doubt Charlie is truly her husband, something else is going on.

Finally Big Ed appeared and his scenes were great. Very sad and melancholic, especially the ending scene with him sitting alone at the Gas Farm.

The Jacoby/Nadine scene was kinda awkward. I wonder if they'll hook up and then Ed and Norma will finally be together. Never thought something like this would be a possibility, though. :lol:

James singing 'Just You' at the Roadhouse was amazing. Great trolling on Lynch's part, although very sincere and emotional. Nice to see Renee again, I hope they follow up their potential romance, as well as James' friend with the green glove.

Also good to see some more new additions, particularly Grant Goodeve and John Savage.
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:43 am

Everybody stop saying "trolling", or define what you mean by that. I thought that was someone who went on the Internet just to stir up shit. Would one of the 67 people on here who claim Lynch is trolling explain what they mean? Because none of you have. Because he plays with audience expectations or because he returns to things most viewers hate, like that song? I don't really understand how that defines as trolling. This is HIS forum, you know. He didn't get on your website and start making trouble.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby KHAN Games » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:44 am

Can anyone clarify the fingerprints plot?

Doppel-Coop's prints have one of them backwards, right?

When Dougie's prints came back, did the cops say that he had just escaped prison -and- he was a missing FBI agent?

I didn't think they would match since one of Doppel-Coop's was backwards.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jude » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:48 am

Much better episode than part 12. We got Shelly, Norma, Big Ed, Bobby, Audrey, Dr. Jacoby, Nadine, James etc... I mean it felt like an original Twin Peaks cast overload in a good way!!

Higlight of the episode: James Hurley "singing" Just You in Roadhouse! Couldn't take the scene seriously (obviously), but that is exactly why it was so memorable moment. I almost started clapping when James was introduced, and I was watching the episode alone in my room. :D

Even though the story itself isn't moving with a very quick pace (it was kind of surprising to realize that it is still the SAME day when Bobby, Hawk and Truman received the item from Garland), this episode felt entertaining to me and that's enough for me at the moment.

Only 5 episodes to go, I think things will heat up in just a couple episodes...
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jacob » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:54 am

It was a solid part -- but after the disappointment that was Part 12, I was still expecting more.
Like Part 10, which in my eyes should have been Part 9, I think this part should have been Part 12. I know I would have liked it more if it has been the case. Even on a continuity level it would have been more logic, as Part 13's beginning, with the Mitchum brothers dancing with Dougie, seems like the direct continuation of Part 11. It's strange to know that Dougie, between the two, had the time to return home to play with Sonnie Jim (like we see it on Part 12). But still, there was a lot of good things here !

- First, it really felt like a disjointed part. We get to see a lot of the characters and of the different stories, but it was frustrating to never be able to focus on one of the narratives. It lacked some kind of an anchor. But that's what you get when you're watching a 18 hours movie cut in parts ! That's also the beauty of it...
And I have to say though that the theme of corruption and greed really dominates almost all of the scenes, which allows the part to still have an emotionnal center. Norma's boyfriend (who made me think of Michael Keaton's character in the clever "The Founder"), Anthony's poison, and obviously the always so materialistic and selfish Janey-E -- who, like I had foreseen after Part 11, was so happy of Sonny Jim's new gym set, and still don't give a shit about Dougie, letting him crashing into the door while she drives in her fancy new car -- : all of that was a good metaphor of what's evil this season. Not just modernity, guns or violence -- that's too easy -- but really desire itself. Expanding. Wanting more.
Remember what Mr. C was saying in Part 1 : "I don't need. I want". Good Janey-E is exactly like that. And honestly she should let Dougie go and get married with Norma's boyfriend, they are a match made in heaven. Or maybe she's just gonna wait Sonny Jim is old enough to rape him :( Oh I know, while looking in awe at her new car (obviously her's, since Dougie isn't able to drive anymore, but who cares ?), she said to Dougie : "I love you". That must be sincere and romantic I'm sure !

- Esthetic was great in this part. Sonny Jim's gym set at night, the scene between Nadine and Jacoby with the drape going back and forth, Richard's arrival while Bad Coop is interrogating Ray... it was a joy to watch ! And the way, the arm wresting scene made me think of the bend rebar challenge between Chet Desmond and Sheriff Cable in Fire Walk With Me. Always the same absurdity about virility :lol:

- I loved the ending and I agree with LostintheMovies : it was better to have Ed scene after James's song, because the beauty of Ed looking at the road is precisely the deception and the melancholy. Personally, while watching the scene, I was sure Mr. C was going to show up at the gas station (maybe with Richard, and maybe, yeah, dressed up as Cooper) -- but it would have been a predictable and very traditionnal cliffhanger. Something that's NOT season 3. Instead, nothing happened. And that's the point, I guess. We are waiting for a twist, in the show, and in our life, that's never going to happen.
About James song, I was moved by it (even if at the beginning I laughed obviously) precisely because of all the "greed and corruption" theme of the part : it felt so naive and disarming in contrast....


So basically it was a good part, which I'm sure I'll be able to enjoy more when all of this will be over and I'll be rewatching the whole thing from the start. Because Part 12's disappointment was still a bit heavy on me...

Part 8 > Part 3 > Part 1 > Part 11 > Part 4 > Part 7 > Part 10 > Part 13 > Part 5 > Part 2 > Part 6 > Part 9 > Part 12

About Charlie, he makes me think less of the cowboy from Mulholland Drive than the psy from INLAND EMPIRE...
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Metamorphia » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:57 am

KHAN Games wrote:Can anyone clarify the fingerprints plot?

Doppel-Coop's prints have one of them backwards, right?

When Dougie's prints came back, did the cops say that he had just escaped prison -and- he was a missing FBI agent?

I didn't think they would match since one of Doppel-Coop's was backwards.


Yeah but I suppose Dougie matched 1990 era Coop, and technically speaking that Coop still is the man who was incarcerated.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent327 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:03 am

Electric Tree wrote:Was anyone else waiting for that suit of clothes in the shadows in Sara's living room to start walking?


I was watching the mirrors.

When the scene had gone on for far too long, I thought "Yet another one of these slow scenes where nothing happens, we get it, it's a painfully sad existence for Sara, we fully understand, the point has been made Lynch, and we've suffered as a viewer, now please lets move on" it then managed to go on for twice as long after that. Nothing happening. I almost dozed off.

In the original series, when you VERY rarely would have a scene resembling that one in it's pace it would still make artistic sense and end up being entertaining. And when James would play his cheesy tune, it would end up being one of the most genuinely terrifying scenes ever committed to film, totally catching the viewer off guard.

With the "Return", the scenes just drag on....without any pay off or a justifiable sense of purpose to even be considering artistic. That's just not good enough. Especially with such a limited run.

Only a few episodes left now.
Metamorphia
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Metamorphia » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:06 am

Agent327 wrote:
Electric Tree wrote:Was anyone else waiting for that suit of clothes in the shadows in Sara's living room to start walking?


I was watching the mirrors.

When the scene had gone on for far too long, I thought "Yet another one of these slow scenes where nothing happens, we get it, it's a painfully sad existence for Sara, we fully understand, the point has been made Lynch, and we've suffered as a viewer, now please lets move on" it then managed to go on for twice as long after that. Nothing happening. I almost dozed off.

In the original series, when you VERY rarely would have a scene resembling that one in it's pace it would still make artistic sense and end up being entertaining. And when James would play his cheesy tune, it would end up being one of the most genuinely terrifying scenes ever committed to film, totally catching the viewer off guard.

With the "Return", the scenes just drag on....without any pay off or a justifiable sense of purpose to even be considering artistic. That's just not good enough. Especially with such a limited run.

Only a few episodes left now.


I made a point earlier that I feel Lynch is taking the approach you describe but applying it to whole episodes instead of individual scenes. I do expect it to pay off eventually.

If it doesn't then your criticisms are valid and I'll probably be joining you! But I see little reason to worry.

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