World of Blue - Archived Forum 2007-2022

Mr. Reindeer wrote: I'm curious, Audrey -- if the scene ends up taking place in the real world, completely at face value, how might that change your perspective? Would you be sad/angry at where Audrey has ended up?

I know this was directed to Audrey, but since you didn't ask me I'll give you my perspective.

This is an important point. The Return is not Westworld, where all the peices will get neatly tied up eventually, although there is some of that in the show in keeping with the spirit of the original run. It makes no difference "where" the scene takes place, and I feel it is in Audrey's mind based so far on my interpretation of DLs prior film work. The scene could be set in TP in the same reality as Bobby's and Ben's, but the intent, the effect, would be the the same, if not quite our reactions to it and our perspective on it (for me anyway).

One aspect many people enjoy about a Lynch story is the "puzzle" aspect of them, where part of the fun, or all of the fun for some people, is figuring out where and how each scene fits into a larger logically airtight narrative. I love this aspect myself, and derive a lot of satisfaction for figuring out the puzzles, but to me it is not the main draw. Roger Ebert, if I'm not mistaken, dismissed DL as a mere puzzle builder until MD, Lynch's biggest puzzle movie of them all (a whole separate thread could be started on how Ebert misses what I see in Lynch's work).

The Audrey scene tells what it tells us, regardless of how it fits into the puzzle. That, I think, is something that gets obscured by Lynch's plotting style. When you watch a scene in a Mike Leigh or John Cassavetes movie, no one is worried about real or not real, even though their films are equally as contrived as any other movie. All scripted movies are surreal. Lynch's more overt surrealism leads to a dissimulation of important expressive aspects of his work, while simultaneously offering the viewer the chance to experience an idea with a fresh set of eyes, so to speak. In other words, the slow pacing, artifice, and desire to "figure out how it fits," can interfere with our understanding of the scene and the overall show, but can also grant us the benefit of absorbing the material without some of the distorted baggage of our preconceptions. We're provided the luxury of watching a single scene through multiple windows.

That's a rather long way of saying that I will be quite happy should the scene turn out to be "real." It would add another new avenue from which to observe this remarkable set piece.

douglasb wrote:So, when do we think the 'real' Cooper will turnip?

(C'mon! I'm surprised no-one got their first.)

Eventually.

(She didnt get it either.)

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douglasb wrote:I never really saw decline - I saw difference. The show became sillier and more soapy but I didn't enjoy it less. Perhaps those aspects haven't aged as well, especially for younger viewers who have become used to edgier, darker TV but my memory is of sustained interest.

Exactly as it was with me. A little frustrated at first for having to deal with Andy, Lucy, Nadine etc. for so much time, but very eager to see where all this will eventually lead - suffice it to say that I wasn't disappointed. Really wished for a continuation, though. So far, can't say I got my wish, unfortunately...

Ratings for Part 12 are a little higher than they were for Part 11, but still low at .240.
http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/s ... -2017.html

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TwinsPeak wrote:[img]crystalball.jpg[/img]

That looks like an empty and partially evaporated snow globe to me.

I think the Audrey scene occurs in the same reality as the rest of the show. That's all I have on that.

N. Needleman wrote:I think the Audrey scene occurs in the same reality as the rest of the show. That's all I have on that.

Yowza Needleman, look at our two avatars next to each other!

The first thing that sprang into my mind upon seeing the snowglobe was "Citizen Kane" which is funny because in this episode Ben is also reminiscing about a childhood means of transport (^^) that harkens back to more innocent times. Way before he was corrupted by greed and alienated nearly everyone arround him. He´s even sitting alone in his hotel most of the time, no costumers show up and no business contract are negoitated. At least we don´t see any of it.

TwinsPeak wrote:[img]crystalball.jpg[/img]

What about that rotary phone? Who uses them these days?

TwinsPeak wrote:

First impression was that this was a paperweight. I used to have a paperweight just like this: wooden base and glass sphere. As noted above, it also resembles a snow globe. It's definitely ambiguous. Whether most people would call it a crystal ball or a crystal-ball-paperweight or a crystal-ball-snow-globe or whatever-else seems undecidable without some kind of poll.

Maybe it's a Chrysta Bell?

Firewalkwithme81 wrote:The first thing that sprang into my mind upon seeing the snowglobe was "Citizen Kane" which is funny because in this episode Ben is also reminiscing about a childhood means of transport (^^) that harkens back to more innocent times. Way before he was corrupted by greed and alienated nearly everyone arroun dhim. He´s even sitting alone in his hotel most of the time, no costumers and no business contract are negoitated. At least we don´t see any of it.

For me Ben's whimsical bike-and-dad reverie recalled Citizen Kane but also Pee Wee's Big Adventure (and so ultimately Bicycle Thieves). It's hard to know when to cut the chain.

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I think Jasper's theory is most likely: something big is coming in Vegas and Dalstmachian reasonably assumed it would be in this Part. I guess we'll see next week!

There were definitely some hints of things getting ready to converge in Vegas in this episode. Hutch and Chantel are on their way, and the text from Diane.

referendum wrote:One thing that i noticed about this ep ( i haven't rewatched it ) was a sense of storm clouds gathering. People have been talking about lynch trolling people letting scenes go on for too long, etc, but earlier in the series when this happened, the spades painting, or the roadhouse sweeping, these were moments of calm where you took a breather. Here, all the gaps were clotted with too many words, or too much extraneous information, or more music than usual, or the ' red room ' backwards sound effects. There was a sort of detail overload, and a deliberate awkwardness to alot of the scenes that has frustrated people. An idea that springs to mind is ' delayed gratification ' - '' the ability to forgo short-term reward in favor of a higher payoff in the future''. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification ). Seen in this way, the repetition of Jacoby rant ( + extra Nadine being excited ), the Lynch hotel room with woman ( the ludicrously slow hyper sexualised exit,see you in the bar later, the fussing by the door ), the Audrey telephone call, the Diane phone scene that the co-ordinates are in Twin Peaks, the 'what don't we know about Vegas? Cole/Albert scene, Roth and Leigh being ready to set off for their double Vegas hit, Sarah's outburst about things that were about to happen ( men are coming here, etc) and the ominous visit to her house where we are not allowed through the door, all add up to a sense of expectation that is never met.

There were a couple of grace notes, like the Truman/ Ben Horne scene and the Carl Rodd ' don't sell your blood' scene, but the rest of it was like a series of builds towards something we KNOW is going to happen ( return to TP, return of Coop to self, getting bad Coop and FBI to Twin Peaks, etc), we are impatient for it happen and to find out how it plays out, but...for now we have to wait until the time is right. And we even have a date for that to happen, the night of Saturday 01/02 october. And we are shown Dougie Coop playing / not playing catch still in all innocence on the morning of Sat 01 oct. What I got from this episode was a sense of imminence, the repeated delaying tactics deliberately winding up the tension before the inevitable showdown.

Of course, if fuck all happens next episode aswell, everything I wrote above will have proved to be wishful thinking

Yeah, this is pretty much the feeling I got, that it's the calm before the storm, that it's like a catapult being pulled back ready to launch something, and we'll be propelled into a sort of Third Act, after the Second Act that essentially bridged everything between the man sweeping, at the end of episode 7 and the man vacuuming, at the end of this episode.

Lots of really major events (aside from the discovery of a portal and the related skull crushing) seems to have happened in episodes six and seven - Ike's rampage and defeat by Cooper, Richard's hit and run, Jerry getting lost in the woods, Hawk's discover of the diary pages, Ben receiving the lost hotel key, Mr C's meeting with Diane and subsequent escape, and everything since has been a slow follow up to those events with no real pay-off. In this episode at least Mr C finally got his revenge on the warden, Jerry finally gets out of the woods, Richard is finally acknowledged as the hit and run driver whilst the hotel key finally falls into the Sheriff's hands.

I think everything will start to build up speed from this point on but, yes, it'll be kind of embarrassing if we're still driving around in circles next episode.

Just an opinion - not super insightful or anything just from a general fan/viewer - I very rarely post, but I was motivated to chime in: After last week's episode being the best so far, this one really pissed me off.
I'm a big fan, but not someone who completely worships David Lynch, so I am disappointed he's given himself so much screen time. I like where the show is going for the most part, but they are painfully slow at doling out the beloved characters.
James hasn't even had a line! I loved seeing Bobby and Shelly together last week, but what really set me off was Audrey's return. man I was looking forward to this. She got to show off some acting chops, but the scenario almost seemed degrading to the character. I'm a little invested as a old fan, and as we get to fewer episodes left, I'm giving up hope of having my (i acknowledge this is just my opinion) hopes to see a satisfying amount of the cast that made Twin Peaks so beloved.

chromereflectsimage wrote:

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I think Jasper's theory is most likely: something big is coming in Vegas and Dalstmachian reasonably assumed it would be in this Part. I guess we'll see next week!

There were definitely some hints of things getting ready to converge in Vegas in this episode. Hutch and Chantel are on their way...

With a brief stop at Wendy's.