Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by Jerry Horne »

Where's the real Diane?

Is she a doppelgänger planted by Bad Coop?
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by krishnanspace »

Jerry Horne wrote:Where's the real Diane?

Is she a doppelgänger planted by Bad Coop?
I think the real Diane never smoked with Gordon.It was Gordons way of testing her.That what I think
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by yaxomoxay »

krishnanspace wrote:
Jerry Horne wrote:Where's the real Diane?

Is she a doppelgänger planted by Bad Coop?
I think the real Diane never smoked with Gordon.It was Gordons way of testing her.That what I think
Wouldn't the Doppelgänger have all of Diane's memories?


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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by Jerry Horne »

She has white hair like Leland. She barely contains her anger. She clearly saw a Woodsman enter the car and didn't say anything until much later. We know Bad Coop visited her awhile back. Wouldn't Bad Coop know the FBI would reach out to her at some point and figure he could use someone on the inside?
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by Deep Thought »

sylvia_north wrote:Oh it was totally premeditated. Look at the way the sun is hitting the (edit: BLUE) top storage container, and it's in shadow in the next one. Subtle changes in the shadows off the structures, too. The sun hasn't changed position in the sky.
Not to mention there is a giant palm tree in South Dakota. No way the location scout, crew, director, and editors missed that one. It must have come through the twister. I hope the palm tree sub-plot is resolved by season's end.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by krishnanspace »

yaxomoxay wrote:
krishnanspace wrote:
Jerry Horne wrote:Where's the real Diane?

Is she a doppelgänger planted by Bad Coop?
I think the real Diane never smoked with Gordon.It was Gordons way of testing her.That what I think
Wouldn't the Doppelgänger have all of Diane's memories?


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Dont think so.The real Dougie doesn't have any of Cooper's memories
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by bastia »

Jerry Horne wrote:She has white hair like Leland. She barely contains her anger. She clearly saw a Woodsman enter the car and didn't say anything until much later. We know Bad Coop visited her awhile back. Wouldn't Bad Coop know the FBI would reach out to her at some point and figure he could use someone on the inside?

And I think that only the gifted and the damned can see demons/spirits etc. As they said in season one.

I think Diane has a specific reason to have seen that (damned). Like Gordon and Albert (gifted).

Not everyone can see them, macklay and tammy did not.



I am wondering if Diane start to look for good coop by herself and end up with a double.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by bastia »

krishnanspace wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
krishnanspace wrote: I think the real Diane never smoked with Gordon.It was Gordons way of testing her.That what I think
Wouldn't the Doppelgänger have all of Diane's memories?


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Dont think so.The real Dougie doesn't have any of Cooper's memories

Maybe because only bad coop have them.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

firefly2193 wrote:I think you're criticism comes from literally the opposite place to mine. I want the return to be MORE Lynchian in the sense that I know it - his work since FWWM onwards have been deep character studies exploring subjects who have suffered deep trauma and their subjective experience of reality thereafter. So far I have enjoyed TPTR quite a lot, but mostly for its aesthetic values - Part 8 is one of my favourite episodes of television ever - but I'm still itching for the emotional core of the show to come through, if one exists. If Parts 12-18 (even if its just Parts 16-18 or something like that) operate on the level of Part 8 I'll be very satisfied, but if it can combine that with a subjective lens that gives us insight into the human experience, ala Mulholland Drive or FWWM, then I'll be completely thrilled.
I agree wholeheartedly with all of this. I also agree with the poster below who noted that DougieCoop is the emotional core of the show; but as charming and beautiful as I have found much of that storyline, it doesn't compare to the powerful mixture of suffering, pain, love and (sometimes) redemption we've gotten from all of DKL's major works from FWWM on. Outside of the Dougie scenes, TPTR seems almost aggressively focused on narrative/mythology (and shaggy-dog asides), at least when compared to most of DKL's other "recent" works (ironic since many viewers feel there's been little plot movement). In the original show, the mythology worked at its best when it was in service of showing Laura's pain and the terror and sadness caused by her death. I hope when all is said and done, all of the new developments end up saying something similarly complex and personal about Dale, and about all of us.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by Trudy Chelgren »

I love this quote from an article by Decider.com:

Suddenly, the lounge pianist strikes a plaintive key, the mood shifting toward airy melancholy. The piece is “Heartbreaking,” an Angelo Badalamenti original (but it sure sounds an awful lot like a stripped down rendition of “The Theme from Love Story” to me). Nevertheless, Cooper whips his head around, some deep feeling stirred within him. For a moment, he is truly Cooper again.

In that moment the piano strikes that single key, the life returns to Cooper’s eyes. His lantern jaw snaps to attention, his lips slightly apart, his attention held like a laser.


That moment was extraordinary, real goosebumps for me. I half-expected Laura, (or someone a lot like her) to be sitting at another table, somehow conjured by Cooper's intensity and the music, his eyes landing on hers. It made it all the more powerful that she wasn't there. And the cover of Viva Las Vegas over the driving scene was elegiac, so beautiful. I loved the moment the limo driver recognized Cooper, "red door!", and he immediately looks for it out the window. He's sweetly funny, and desperately lonely at the same time. Amanda Seyfried is a powerhouse in this, as is Dana. I should be speechless, but there's too much to say. I'm astonished at the breadth of Lynch and Frost's achievements. It's certainly not how I'd imagined, or even hoped sometimes, but The Return just never ceases to move me.
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
I hope when all is said and done, all of the new developments end up saying something similarly complex and personal about Dale, and about all of us.
+1
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by yaxomoxay »

krishnanspace wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
krishnanspace wrote: I think the real Diane never smoked with Gordon.It was Gordons way of testing her.That what I think
Wouldn't the Doppelgänger have all of Diane's memories?


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Dont think so.The real Dougie doesn't have any of Cooper's memories
He's not a Doppelgänger, he's a manufactured being.


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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by sylvia_north »

Deep Thought wrote: Not to mention there is a giant palm tree in South Dakota. No way the location scout, crew, director, and editors missed that one. It must have come through the twister. I hope the palm tree sub-plot is resolved by season's end.
To be fair lol Twin Peaks post pilot pre FWWM never looked like Washington State.

It's Shelly's magically rotating coffee mug that's distracting to me. I guess there's the A file- things that matter- and the B file- things that don't.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
firefly2193 wrote:I think you're criticism comes from literally the opposite place to mine. I want the return to be MORE Lynchian in the sense that I know it - his work since FWWM onwards have been deep character studies exploring subjects who have suffered deep trauma and their subjective experience of reality thereafter. So far I have enjoyed TPTR quite a lot, but mostly for its aesthetic values - Part 8 is one of my favourite episodes of television ever - but I'm still itching for the emotional core of the show to come through, if one exists. If Parts 12-18 (even if its just Parts 16-18 or something like that) operate on the level of Part 8 I'll be very satisfied, but if it can combine that with a subjective lens that gives us insight into the human experience, ala Mulholland Drive or FWWM, then I'll be completely thrilled.
I agree wholeheartedly with all of this. I also agree with the poster below who noted that DougieCoop is the emotional core of the show; but as charming and beautiful as I have found much of that storyline, it doesn't compare to the powerful mixture of suffering, pain, love and (sometimes) redemption we've gotten from all of DKL's major works from FWWM on. Outside of the Dougie scenes, TPTR seems almost aggressively focused on narrative/mythology (and shaggy-dog asides), at least when compared to most of DKL's other "recent" works (ironic since many viewers feel there's been little plot movement). In the original show, the mythology worked at its best when it was in service of showing Laura's pain and the terror and sadness caused by her death. I hope when all is said and done, all of the new developments end up saying something similarly complex and personal about Dale, and about all of us.
I agree. But I must say that as far as emotions are concerned, the final scene of Part 11 had me reeling. It was powerful and unexpected and operated at a level that most things don't, in that it had me all at once on the edge of my seat with a huge smile on my face and tears in my eyes...longing for the return. A friend of mine said you have to actively want it (the return) to be fully engaged with this, at the same time you're willing to be taken wherever Lynch/Frost take you. That scene so far is the culmination of that.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by wxray »

sylvia_north wrote:
Deep Thought wrote: Not to mention there is a giant palm tree in South Dakota. No way the location scout, crew, director, and editors missed that one. It must have come through the twister. I hope the palm tree sub-plot is resolved by season's end.
To be fair lol Twin Peaks post pilot pre FWWM never looked like Washington State.

It's Shelly's magically rotating coffee mug that's distracting to me. I guess there's the A file- things that matter- and the B file- things that don't.
The WA location shots in TP:TR are somewhat unsettling compared to the backlot comfort we got in most of S1 and S2. I'm really liking the grittiness of it all.

As for file-A and file-B, I agree. The problem is we have no idea what's what. I can imagine Lynch and Dunham reviewing the cut and seeing some of this (palm tree), and saying, "Aw shit, let it go. It will give the internet dweebs something to talk about." :)
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Post by Ragnell »

yaxomoxay wrote:
krishnanspace wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
Wouldn't the Doppelgänger have all of Diane's memories?


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Dont think so.The real Dougie doesn't have any of Cooper's memories
He's not a Doppelgänger, he's a manufactured being.


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I think Doppelcoop sacrificed his own capacity for joy and fun to make Dougie, who seemed to be composed of vices Cooper rejects and the natural Cooper Charisma. The Doppelganger, as others have pointed out, laughed maniacally and seemed to be enjoying himself while now he is just... joyless. Dead eyed.

Not sure what the other ingrediants were (I imagine someone got killed to bring life to this guy), but I doubt Dale's memories would be it.

As for Diane? I think she's possessed. The vision of Laura last ep was from right after she realized Leland was possessed, and then Albert came and confirmed some suspicion for Cole.
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