Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

[windh]

Regarding the talk of how it will play out or wether there will be a season 4.... Perhaps our lovely Kyle slipped his tongue during the Facebook Q/A... https://youtu.be/sOiOKwqsO_g

At one point he said something to the effect of "playing Cooper again.....or having played Cooper again, I should say..."

Almost over compensating it felt like...

But I guess this is just over analyzing...

[ScarFace32]

1) There's something really significant I have's seen anyone point out yet: Dougie-Dale made a decision. In the past we've seen him distracted and interested in things while being guided, but he always gave way to the people physically directing him. The one time he broke free of someone's grip was to push Janey-E out of the way to block Ike the Spike, and that could be attributed to muscle memory. Other than that he always lets someone direct him.

But here, he saw the One-Armed Man and broke free of Bushnell's grip. You can see Bushnell resist a little but he just breaks free. Did not react to his name being called, which is actually unusual, in the last few eps he usually stops and looks. No, he goes straight for that vision of the One-Armed Man. He PRIORITIZES the Red Room vision over Bushnell's interference.

That is HUGE. In fact, that's what makes what happens so SATISFYING. Because that CHOICE, possibly the first time he's had two options and prioritized one, is what saves his life. He follows his intuition over physical pressure. It's beautiful.

And then the response is due to the choices of the Mitchem Brothers. To accept the message of the dream and act accordingly, and as a result they get a $30 million dollar payout and have a lovely dinner with a new friend. We know the Mitchems hsave the potential for great violence and great mercy, we've seen it with the Pit Boss and with the Showgirls. They choose to go with mercy, faith and dreams and that makes this story beautiful.

Doesn't he do the same thing in the casino

[Methedrome]

The more we talk about this original script for Ep 29, the more I am sure that I once read it somewhere. I definitely remember the cut Leo scene exactly as you describe it. Was this thing ever published somewhere? Did I read it online somewhere? It was a very long time ago. My memory is fuzzy, but I absolutely did read it.

Here ya go: http://www.glastonberrygrove.net/texts/script29.html

That scene as written always amused me because after we hear Leo screaming offscreen, we then inexplicably hear gunshots (!!!). I have this great mental image of Hawk picking off the spiders one by one with super-precise shots, saving Leo's life.

And the key word from the script is fairly obvious to his demise.

LEO
Hi -
(realizing his FATAL mistake)
- WHAAAAAA!!

[LateReg]

As for if Dougie wakes up now, there's a lot he could do. He could start by hooking up with Albert and Cole and helping them track down Bad Coop and/or go back to Twin Peaks and hook up with Truman/Hawk and find the entry to the lodge. Maybe he'd have to save Audrey. Or the whole town of Twin Peaks. I think he will wake up soon. As I just wrote in another thread, he's wearing the suit he wore as Cooper in the original show

Spoiler:

and that we've seen him wearing in teaser trailers where he's driving around and looking in control of his faculties

, so that tells me we might be close to him awakening. And we've already had him experiencing lots of little awakenings - seeing various elements relating to law enforcement, the American flag, coffee, and now cherry pie. Cherry pie feels like the final - or close to final - step. I think something major - Audrey? Twin Peaks? Laura Palmer? - will be the catalyst to fully wake him up.

I wrote this in the Dougie Wake Up thread, but your last sentences made me want to respond with it here as well. I think while many think Dougie might stick around til the end, here are the wild cards as I see them, and why I think he might awaken soon:

1. When The Return wants to, it can accomplish a lot in a very short amount of time. Such as in Part 7, which seemed to come out of nowhere at the time and accelerated the plot greatly.

2. If something happens with the convergence of storylines at 2:53 on some day and Cooper gets sucked back into the Lodge, then all bets are off. The Lodge could play a huge factor. He could recover whatever he's missing at that point and emerge with awareness that he's Cooper, albeit an older one who will still find the world a strange and changed place. If this happens, then it could mean that people like Janey-E are left stranded, wondering what the hell happened to her Dougie. The resolution of her storyline might come later. Or she could be shot dead in a chaotic moment of convergence, which would be another way of abruptly speeding along the Vegas stuff in a realistic and meaningful way. In fact, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but perhaps what really needs to happen to snap Cooper out of it is for Janey-E to be put in grave danger or to die, since that would represent the third woman in his life (Caroline/Annie) that he has failed to protect. How would that affect him?

3. The Return has been utterly unpredictable the entire time. Now that basically 90% of the people watching have resigned themselves to thinking that Cooper won't return until the final few parts, perhaps he will just suddenly return now that we are settled in and least expect it.

[Pinky]

So far the emotional core of the show has been the Dougie storyline. And so far I'm not quite sure *what* that story is going to be. I sincerely hope what happens is that it takes something that truly gets at the core of Dale's character - perhaps seeing Audrey or Annie in danger - to 'wake him up'. I would love the idea that silly aesthetic things like coffee and cherry pie aren't enough, and it takes something of emotional weight to return Dale to who he was. If its just a story of a man slowly returning to his character by drinking coffee and eating cherry pie....that would be a disappointment for me. Fingers crossed.

I think that Dale will not awake because of external circumstances. He will awake on 10/2. However that will simply mean that Dale's intelligence is back, with his deductive powers and his intelligence. As for his old emotions? They will never come back as if nothing happened; his will be a struggle to prevent total madness after 25years in the lodge and after losing the best years of his life.
At that point some external circumstance (Audrey? double r coffee?) can save his sanity, but I fear that he will be forever on the verge of lovecraftian madness.


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I'm half waiting for a scene where DoppelCoop dons a Cooper disguise and contacts, but your theory does a better job of explaining the grim expression on MacLachlan's face in all the 'woken Cooper' teases we saw in the trailers. It makes sense that we're not going to see much of the friendly Coop, he's going to be working through a few thousand issues, but I don't know that maybe Lynch/Frost are going to give the audience a moment or two of him for old times sake/emotional weight. To be honest, I don't see how anything short of Coop dying or sacrificing himself back in the Lodge will not be anticlimactic. There seem to be huge stakes here.

Having said that, I can also easily see them giving us a big hearted friendly ending with Coop driving off into the sunset etc and although it'll feel massively jarring tonally, it'll probably work!

[DeepBlueSeed]

I think what's so odd (and maybe interesting) about some of her movements, especially in this scene, is that she moves her head before her eyes follow. When we move, our eyes/vision tend to lead, followed by head movement, even by a split second. In her case, there are a few times when her vision very slowly lags behind her head movement. It leads to things looking really odd.

Incidentally, that's also how the reversed lodge scenes tend to look. So if our vision leads our head movements, then when reversed, the head movement will happen before the eyes follow. Watch Black Lodge scenes and you'll see that all the time.

NOT saying that Candie has anything to do with the Black Lodge whatsoever. Just an interesting effect that throws things off and commands attention when we watch. Wouldn't be surprised if Lynch deliberately directed her movements on this.

Definitely noticed it in the Black Lodge, but hadn't noticed it in Candie. Whilst it helps add to the weirdness in the Lodge (much like reversed blinking), when it's actually performed in real life it just looks like the person's mind is elsewhere, that they're slowly turning their attention to you, but aren't really focussing on you until they have to. I mean of course that's exactly what Candie is doing, but it's interesting to consider that we almost instinctively recognise people in the Black Lodge as being oddly distracted, without thinking why.

It's weird that Candie isn't at all like this when she's hunting that fly. Or even when she's in hysterics afterwards. I always got the impression that she was somehow sedated at other times, that perhaps all three of the 'andies are, although she certainly seems the least focussed of them all.

[sylvia_north]

also - the way it was filmed strongly hinted that diane saw the woodsmen approach the car...surprised she told them she thought she saw someone leaving it when that's not what we saw.

That was strange. One possibility is that she was unclear on what she was seeing at first, and did in fact see the woodsman going away from the car, though we weren't shown that part. The other possibility is that she didn't want to admit that she saw the woodsman sneaking up to the car and didn't say anything, because it could mean she's arguably got a little bit of Hastings' blood on her hands.

Twin Peaks 2017 group on Facebook found this - did a search here, didn't know if it'd been caught here or no. Three minutes apart, Diane's POV is flipped

[bastia]

also - the way it was filmed strongly hinted that diane saw the woodsmen approach the car...surprised she told them she thought she saw someone leaving it when that's not what we saw.

That was strange. One possibility is that she was unclear on what she was seeing at first, and did in fact see the woodsman going away from the car, though we weren't shown that part. The other possibility is that she didn't want to admit that she saw the woodsman sneaking up to the car and didn't say anything, because it could mean she's arguably got a little bit of Hastings' blood on her hands.

Twin Peaks 2017 group on Facebook found this - did a search here, didn't know if it'd been caught here or no. Three minutes apart, Diane's POV is flipped

Yeeeah, i got that right! She is really a doppelganger

[referendum]

@sylvia north

Twin Peaks 2017 group on Facebook found this - did a search here, didn't know if it'd been caught here or no. Three minutes apart, Diane's POV is flipped

there are a ton of examples of shots being re-used twice, lines of dialogue or camera set ups hand gestures or partial scenes repeated etc.
this because Twin Peaks is not '' reality'' it is a '' representation''.
it does not have to obey documentary law.
you don't have to obey normal tv editing sequencing when dealing with scenes seen from a character POV with doubled-up characters and when a huge hole opens in the sky.
a flipped shot or repeated shot here and there is a shorthand for '' something is wrong'' or simply '' pay attention''

[wxray]

@sylvia north

Twin Peaks 2017 group on Facebook found this - did a search here, didn't know if it'd been caught here or no. Three minutes apart, Diane's POV is flipped

there are a ton of examples of shots being re-used twice, lines of dialogue or camera set ups hand gestures or partial scenes repeated etc.
this because Twin Peaks is not '' reality'' it is a '' representation''.
it does not have to obey documentary law.

And editors are just way too fast in flipping scenes for whatever feel or framing they want. For example, the flipped airplane view a few parts back with the reverse writing. I guess it is so easy to do in digital editing.

[referendum]

And editors are just way too fast in flipping scenes for whatever feel or framing they want. For example, the flipped airplane view a few parts back with the reverse writing. I guess it is so easy to do in digital editing.

in a painting it wouldn't bother you. In a TV programme it is unfamiliar.

[yaxomoxay]

@sylvia north

Twin Peaks 2017 group on Facebook found this - did a search here, didn't know if it'd been caught here or no. Three minutes apart, Diane's POV is flipped

there are a ton of examples of shots being re-used twice, lines of dialogue or camera set ups hand gestures or partial scenes repeated etc.
this because Twin Peaks is not '' reality'' it is a '' representation''.
it does not have to obey documentary law.

And editors are just way too fast in flipping scenes for whatever feel or framing they want. For example, the flipped airplane view a few parts back with the reverse writing. I guess it is so easy to do in digital editing.

Well... Diane was on that plane.


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[lotjx2]

Finally, got to see it today. Again, The Twin Peaks/Buckhorn investigations are amazing. Stuff, I have wanted since this series started. We got Cole peering into the Black Lodge and seeing his new enemies in the dust devils. The coordinates are going to point them back to Twin Peaks which is great. We get to see the really screwed up New Briggs family dynamics. I really thought Shelly was going to bite it. It also appears that Twin Peaks is in full meltdown mode. Perhaps even the final Log Lady conversation, I hope not, but it felt final.

Then we get to Las Vegas. Fucking Vegas. I guess we get movement on the Dale front with cherry pie saving his life. He now has two powerful allies in the brothers who are probably setting their sights on Tom Sizemore's character. Hopefully, we get Dougie learning about evil Cooper to trigger him. I am legit out of ideas of how they are going to bring him back. Coffee didn't really do it, we got a glimpse when his life was in danger then it was gone as fast as it came, maybe its the pie. Who knows. I am just waiting for the show to be done so we can get a fan edit or a producer edit of all the Vegas stuff on one disc then all the good stuff on another.

[bastia]

@sylvia north

Twin Peaks 2017 group on Facebook found this - did a search here, didn't know if it'd been caught here or no. Three minutes apart, Diane's POV is flipped

there are a ton of examples of shots being re-used twice, lines of dialogue or camera set ups hand gestures or partial scenes repeated etc.
this because Twin Peaks is not '' reality'' it is a '' representation''.
it does not have to obey documentary law.

And editors are just way too fast in flipping scenes for whatever feel or framing they want. For example, the flipped airplane view a few parts back with the reverse writing. I guess it is so easy to do in digital editing.

If it is easy it doesn't mean that they would do it all the time. In the airplane view it had a certain purpose. I don't see Lynch setting something like this randomly. In my opinion it is a decisive hint! Like thr yrev one, but in a different way of course

[sylvia_north]

Oh it was totally premeditated. Look at the way the sun is hitting the (edit: BLUE) top storage container, and it's in shadow in the next one. Subtle changes in the shadows off the structures, too. The sun hasn't changed position in the sky.