World of Blue - Archived Forum 2007-2022

Ragnell wrote:So Miriam's letter not matching the credits and the glitch when Tammy approached the door are being written off as production mistakes that will never come up again. Just like the seating change at the Double-R in ep 7.

I just think that's a really weird prevailing attitude in this fandom when we all know the main series villain's true origin is that a setdresser was accidentally trapped on set and then mistakenly caught in a mirror during a shot.

I'm of the thinking that the door glitch was an error (which, who knows, maybe Lynch gleefully left in), the letter I'm on the fence about, and I think the change in extras in episode 7 was definitely intentional, accompanied by ominous music (also, there's way too much that has to happen on set for that to be a continuity error, whereas the letter and door glitch could come down to a single prop or editing mistake).

It's a 1-2-3 set of reactions from me.

Okay, I was watching the "House By the Video Store" review of this ep and they brought up something that's been in the back of my mind. They suggested that the scene with Dougie and Janey-E was a meta-commentary on how Hollywood handles sexuality.

So, prior to this I couldn't get it out of my mind that THAT event happened in a episode that featured scenes with Johnny Horne, Lucy and Candy. Johnny, Lucy, Candy and Dougie-Coop are all characters that are not just a LITTLE off, but a LOT off. Johnny's clearly severely impaired and needs constant care. Candy seems to have some sort of severe ADD and is not strong on logic. Lucy has always been obsessed with precise communication and slow to process abstract concepts (she may be on the autism spectrum?) and this season it's clearly gotten worse as technology's gotten better, with her problems with the thermostat and inability to process cell phones. And of course, Dougie.

We've got a range of... neurodiverse characters here, here from low-functioning like Johnny to high-functioning like Lucy and Candie. And then we have Dougie, who wasn't functioning at ALL when Jade found him in that house, and who has slowly been getting more active and more functional since then. So I wondered if Lynch was aware of the consent issues with the sex scene and was actually fitting in a bunch of other characters who are underestimated because their brains don't work the way a typical person's do.

The I watch this review: https://youtu.be/hy_gjGmiffM?t=9m44s and they point out that there's heavy emphasis on Cooper's physical condition being perfect, and that they think that the Doctor is ignoring Dougie's mental health because he's so absorbed with his perfect physical health, and they wonder if it's a metacommentary on being absorbed with physical traits and sexuality to the point you ignore someone's well-being. Then they go on to mention that it reminds them of female characters that are shown to have an extremely childlike mentality but are still sexual objects and my thought was... Candie.

I'm not sure where to go beyond that. But I went from suspecting that Lynch was drawing attention to how wrong the scene was to being SURE he was drawing attention to Coop's diminished capacity, even as he was portraying it as a positive experience for Dougie-Coop.

Now, do I think he made Janey-E a villain? No, I don't think he's presenting her as evil. Janey-E genuinely thinks this is another man. There's been arguments like this in comics fandom like , if Doc Ock is in Spider-man's body and sleeps with a girl, or if the Chameleon is pretending to be Peter Parker and sleeps with a girl is it rape... and it's come up in some states, it is because sleeping with your identical twin's spouse without telling them they have the wrong twin is legally rape in NY. However, this isn't like that. This is like finding your wife's identical twin who is stoned out of her mind, thinking it's your wife who has a traumatic brain injury that sometimes leads to echolalia and acting spacey, and sleeping together. Which is a really weird one in a million situation that I doubt either party would feel was an act of violence.

And after this I don't see Cooper going off with another woman now that this marriage is consummated. Cooper doesn't go from woman to woman that easily. Once he regains his senses he's going to explain this to Janey-E, and if she survives and is able to deal with this and remain with him, he will have this family. If she dies or rejects him, he'll finish out the season alone.

h2nho wrote:

Mr. Reindeer wrote:It's interesting that Sylvia seems more concerned/nurturing toward Johnny than in the original show. Of course, we're seeing her here under very different circumstances, and we've only ever gotten small glimpses. But in the old show, she seemed impatient and angry with Johnny's inability to accept that Laura was gone, and she refused to even see him/try to comfort him, delegating to a caretaker. She seems much kinder here.

I agree, tremendously touching. But, it might also be a matter of necessity. Johnny seems to be the only thing or person she's got left.

Is to have Johnny tied to a chair, with that strange thing inside his mouth and obligued to watch a sinister teddy bear repeating the same thing over and over again the best theraphy she can gives to her son?

Mibbler wrote:

h2nho wrote:

Mr. Reindeer wrote:It's interesting that Sylvia seems more concerned/nurturing toward Johnny than in the original show. Of course, we're seeing her here under very different circumstances, and we've only ever gotten small glimpses. But in the old show, she seemed impatient and angry with Johnny's inability to accept that Laura was gone, and she refused to even see him/try to comfort him, delegating to a caretaker. She seems much kinder here.

I agree, tremendously touching. But, it might also be a matter of necessity. Johnny seems to be the only thing or person she's got left.

Is to have Johnny tied to a chair, with that strange thing inside his mouth and obligued to watch a sinister teddy bear repeating the same thing over and over again the best theraphy she can gives to her son?

That is one thing. She had a caretaker in the original series. Now she's calling to demand Ben send her money. Is the Horne family just putting on a show, and not actually wealthy enough to care properly for Johnny anymore?

Ragnell wrote:

Mibbler wrote:

h2nho wrote: I agree, tremendously touching. But, it might also be a matter of necessity. Johnny seems to be the only thing or person she's got left.

Is to have Johnny tied to a chair, with that strange thing inside his mouth and obligued to watch a sinister teddy bear repeating the same thing over and over again the best theraphy she can gives to her son?

That is one thing. She had a caretaker in the original series. Now she's calling to demand Ben send her money. Is the Horne family just putting on a show, and not actually wealthy enough to care properly for Johnny anymore?

If they're relying heavily on Jerry's business acumen with his legal-substance business, it's a worry.

Sylvia lives in a pretty nice house.

I think the intent is that Johnny does have a caretaker... "Who let him out?!!" But now that running is his new thing and he's found out at way to run dangerously amok, he's being restrained (in a Lyncian way). And the teddy bear is most likely something he's had since childhood (that's taken a beating over the years) or new that they found calms him down. Sylvia is not intentionally torturing him, she's overprotecting him. That's the whole crux of their relationship. In the deleted scene Audrey tells her, "you're hurting him... You never leave him, that's why he's like this!"

the gold foil in Johnny's bear's mouth makes me think of a mouth filled to the brim with garmonbozia

I got the sense that Sylvia needs Johnny as much as he needs her.

Audrey Horne wrote:I think the intent is that Johnny does have a caretaker... "Who let him out?!!" But now that running is his new thing and he's found out at way to run dangerously amok, he's being restrained (in a Lyncian way). And the teddy bear is most likely something he's had since childhood (that's taken a beating over the years) or new that they found calms him down. Sylvia is not intentionally torturing him, she's overprotecting him. That's the whole crux of their relationship. In the deleted scene Audrey tells her, "you're hurting him... You never leave him, that's why he's like this!"

Huh. I've always heard that line as "you never LOVED him."

Re: Sylvia.

FWIW, in TSD, Laura says it was rare for her to see Sylvia without a shopping bag in each arm and a plane ticket in her mouth, implying that Sylvia was an absentee parent. In the series, from the very brief sense we got, Sylvia always seemed to have a sad existence: quite the opposite of the jetsetting lifestyle Laura implies in the diary, Sylvia seemed almost a prisoner of the hotel, sitting around their vaguely oppressive private area of the GN with barely a glimpse of daylight, a cuckquean (vocabulary word: a female cuckold!) resigned to her dreary lonely life with no outlet but to express her endless exasperation by screaming at her husband on the rare instances when he actually spent any time with the family. Still, the little bit we saw of Sylvia with Johnny did seem to imply that she kept him very much at arm's length, consistent with TSD. It's also interesting that my memories of most of the Sylvia scenes from the original show have a sense of gloom and darkness, whereas her home in the new show is practically saturated with sunlight.

Re: the Miriam name debate

DKL's films have had similar credits snafus in the past. Dorothy's husband in BV is named Don Vallens in the credits (implying that Dorothy took his last name), but the marriage certificate Jeffrey finds has his name as Donald James Watts, with Vallens as Dorothy's maiden name. Ronette's mom's name changed from Maria to Suburbis from the Pilot credits to the Episode 1 credits. In MD, Woody Katz and Bob Brooker are explicitly named as such in dialogue, but the credits list them as Jimmy Katz and Bob Booker. Prop errors happen, credits errors happen. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And honestly, I think DKL is a lot less interested in playing these "puzzle box" type games than many people seem to think. He has said that his films should be watched straight through so they can wash over the viewer like a piece of music. I really don't think he's playing to freeze-frame culture.

Ross wrote:

Cappy wrote:

Ross wrote: Why are we removing Audrey from his upbringing? We have no idea yet if she raised him or not.

I don't know. I guess I am just operating off of the popular assumption that she is in a coma. I'm not sure if she is or isn't, but the only mention of her so far has been Doc Hayward saying she was comatose at one point.

Going into this season I was expecting Audrey to be living in Los Angeles. So many Lynch films take place there, i'm surprised that no characters or plot points have led to LA.

I don't think Audrey is in a coma. Sherilyn is in the show- they aren't going to have her do all her scenes from a hospital bed.

Sherilyn did tweet this awhile back:

To the people thinking Audrey is *still* in a coma, didn't the Secret History of Twin Peaks have a letter she wrote to Ben *after* she got out of the hospital? Or maybe I'm misremembering.

Anyway, I don't buy it for the slightest. Doc Hayward talked about it in past tense.

Rudagger wrote:To the people thinking Audrey is *still* in a coma, didn't the Secret History of Twin Peaks have a letter she wrote to Ben *after* she got out of the hospital? Or maybe I'm misremembering.

Misremembering! She left the letter at the GN front desk before leaving for the bank that fateful morning.

Mr. Reindeer wrote:

Rudagger wrote:To the people thinking Audrey is *still* in a coma, didn't the Secret History of Twin Peaks have a letter she wrote to Ben *after* she got out of the hospital? Or maybe I'm misremembering.

Misremembering! She left the letter at the GN front desk before leaving for the bank that fateful morning.

I find the idea she is still in a coma easier and easier to believe the more we see Richard running around terrorizing the town, implied to be her son. Audrey would've slapped some sense into him long ago. Even if he is a sociopath or psychopath, she'd have brought him under control.

But if he was left to Ben and Sylvia, I can see him turning out this way.

And really, Sylvia's new dynamic with Johnny can be explained by Audrey in a long term coma.

Of course, if she's been in a coma all this time that doesn't mean she'll STAY in a coma.