Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:34 pm

Ragnell wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Rudagger wrote:To the people thinking Audrey is *still* in a coma, didn't the Secret History of Twin Peaks have a letter she wrote to Ben *after* she got out of the hospital? Or maybe I'm misremembering.


Misremembering! :mrgreen: She left the letter at the GN front desk before leaving for the bank that fateful morning.


I find the idea she is still in a coma easier and easier to believe the more we see Richard running around terrorizing the town, implied to be her son. Audrey would've slapped some sense into him long ago. Even if he is a sociopath or psychopath, she'd have brought him under control.

But if he was left to Ben and Sylvia, I can see him turning out this way.

And really, Sylvia's new dynamic with Johnny can be explained by Audrey in a long term coma.

Of course, if she's been in a coma all this time that doesn't mean she'll STAY in a coma.

Oh yeah. I mentioned the socio/psychopath thing as an alternative. I.E. he was born this way (maybe of bad blood). However, this could also be a "nurture" issue for sure.

If your caretaker (Ben) was still fighting the American CIvil war in 1995 (130 years later), you might grow up a bit off the rails too.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:38 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Re: Sylvia.

FWIW, in TSD, Laura says it was rare for her to see Sylvia without a shopping bag in each arm and a plane ticket in her mouth, implying that Sylvia was an absentee parent. In the series, from the very brief sense we got, Sylvia always seemed to have a sad existence: quite the opposite of the jetsetting lifestyle Laura implies in the diary, Sylvia seemed almost a prisoner of the hotel, sitting around their vaguely oppressive private area of the GN with barely a glimpse of daylight, a cuckquean (vocabulary word: a female cuckold!) resigned to her dreary lonely life with no outlet but to express her endless exasperation by screaming at her husband on the rare instances when he actually spent any time with the family. Still, the little bit we saw of Sylvia with Johnny did seem to imply that she kept him very much at arm's length, consistent with TSD. It's also interesting that my memories of most of the Sylvia scenes from the original show have a sense of gloom and darkness, whereas her home in the new show is practically saturated with sunlight.


I think the passage of time may factor into this. We see how different Ben is from Season 1, so his character has changed a great deal, unless his breakthrough at the end of Season 2 was real, which I'm still on the fence about. Also I'm wondering how Audrey's coma and whatever happened after it effected the family dynamics. That certainly had to be a traumatic event for everyone, and it's still a big mystery that's hanging out there in this season. It was never really shown whether Sylvia and Audrey were particularly close in the original run, but it's possible whatever happened to Audrey could have driven Sylvia closer to Johnny or changed her relationship with her children altogether.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby bosguy1981 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:09 pm

Ragnell wrote:I find the idea she is still in a coma easier and easier to believe the more we see Richard running around terrorizing the town, implied to be her son. Audrey would've slapped some sense into him long ago. Even if he is a sociopath or psychopath, she'd have brought him under control.


I don't think anybody could reasonably bring this person under control. I'm also fearful he may have done something to Audrey (his own mother) at some point and that's why she hasn't been onscreen yet - she may be in some kind of hiding from her own violent son. Could be a horrible back story coming. I mean, if he'd do something so violent to his grandmother, why do we think he wouldn't be equally violent towards his mother? I have a bad feeling.

I'm predicting Big Ed will get his introduction in Part 11 (timed well with his Comic Con appearance) but my gut is telling me we'll be waiting even one more week until Part 12 before Audrey even shows up. Kind of crazy how far along in this we're getting.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:20 pm

I don't think they were supposed to be close at all... Granted, they never used the scene, but that was most likely for time... But Sylvia calls Audrey a "little bitch" when confronted about Johnny. I think the intent (which Frost and Lynch are revisiting reinforced by the retcon in the Secret History) is all four Horne members are dysfunctional with one another.

I think whether or not Audrey is still in a coma is irrelevant. If she still is, then most likely it will go into her mind, dreams... Or she wakes up from it as a plot point. But with the Secret History, I think the important point is she remained in a coma by book's end. It most likely reinforces that she spent time out of the asking world, especially during Richard's formative years.

And totally agree that she will be the last of the original characters brought back.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby djsunyc » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:29 pm

i'm on the fence here - i don't know if i want richard to be saved. i think some people are just pure evil. now you could go into some deep psycho analyiss on why people do bad things but at some point, if your inner soul doesn't think it's bad to call your grandma a khunt and steal from her, then you evil.

i hope he ends up in norm macdonald hell where he gets porked by hitler for all eternity.

i don't want any redeemable ending for him - he needs to leave this world altogether. ok, well maybe i'm not really on the fence lol.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby djsunyc » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:30 pm

i also would like to reiterate my wish for audrey and coop to be together forever. and yes, i asked rick astley and he also believes they should be together forever.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby dud » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:37 pm

djsunyc wrote:i hope he ends up in norm macdonald hell where he gets porked by hitler for all eternity.


yeah, this Richard Horne guy is a real jerk! :lol:
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby krishnanspace » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:18 am

Has anyone read the trending theory on reddit? The most sensible theory I have read regarding 2:53,the purple room and Dougie. https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comm ... rple_room/

Too excited for the next episode, if this turns out to be true
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby EwanM » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:54 am

Absolutely loved this episode. Apart from the astonishing Ep8 and the first 15 mins of Ep3, it may be my favourite so far. Short in duration, but so much to enjoy.

At every step, this mystifying, elliptical work resonates with truth. Preternaturally still and silent for much of its duration, Twin Peaks: The Return periodically erupts with sound and fury, signifying everything. And lurking in the silence, that faintly menacing, sometimes seductive background noise. Electrical current coursing through cables, or the deep soulful resonance of a monastery bell? Or more likely the irreducible aural detritus of evil, lurking in plain sight, metastasising in the margins of the mundane.

Harry Dean Stanton sings and strums - a delicate pleasure shattered by the stridently dissonant intrusion of everyday evil. 'Domestic abuse' is such a self-sanitising term: it apologises for itself, a contradictory conflation of the timid and the transgressive. There is nothing domesticated about Steven's feral attack on Becky, but the monstrous man-child sans pareil is, as always, Dick.

Richard Horne - Id Unbound. Instinct unconstrained by conscience. Immature, petulant, vulnerable and all the more dangerous for his patent weaknesses. No matter how tortured his soul, Richard exports more than he imports, the balance of pain is always configured in his favour.

The Return is a tale of somnambulism and solipsism. Wounded characters turn inside, or lash out - evasive obfuscation and shallow gratification, introspection and projection, sublimation and predation, it's all here. Candie's ethereal hand movements are as inscrutable as Lil's coded gestures in FWWM, as escapist as Becky's cocaine high. Like DougieCoop, she is both present and absent, a facsimile occupying the space where a person should be. The casino security camera scene, as Candie engages so effusively with Anthony Sinclair, to the increasing bemusement of the Mitchums, is Lynch's method in microcosm - the mundane rendered mysterious via the filter of abstraction. What secrets lie beyond the surface of Candie's comically animated, but unheard, conversation with this stranger? Her unexpectedly expressive engagement contrasting so vividly with her default setting of languorous vapidity. Is she identifying air conditioning vents, or escape routes?

Janey-E's opportunism is almost as stark as Richard Horne's, but her modus operandi infinitely more subtle. She surely suspects that this is not her husband, but the sack of casino cash, 'Dougie''s uncharacteristically decisive response to Ike the Spike's attack, and the six pack have worked their magic. In a world bedevilled by communication problems and infidelity, populated by dysfunctional couples who invariably want their partner 'to change', 'to be more like someone else', Janey-E happily upgrades to a more desirable model. Coop lands in her lap, gift-wrapped and her nature compels her to take advantage, just as Ben, inevitably, reverts to type with Beverley. It's doubtful that Ben has heard a monastery bell in his life - if this reassuringly potent metaphor chimes with him at all, it's not from its essential harmony, but in its utility as an instrument of seduction; a womaniser's misdirection designed to bamboozle his 'mark.' Ben's eventual gratification will assume no greater nobility for its delay; his callous response to Sylvia's traumatised phone call reaffirming his essential venality. Meanwhile, back in Vegas, DougieCoop's vacant repetition of Janey-E's 'I love you' barely registers. As meaningless as so many parroted 'I love you's, echoing vacuously around interchangeable marital homes in soulless suburbs. For Janey and Ben, it's all about them.

The Mitchum Brothers are played broadly, for comic effect: reassuringly 'old school': these anachronistic gangsters with their outdated moral codes (Candie strikes Rodney, who does not reciprocate) have been rendered quaint by the passage of time. "Fuck us once, shame on us, fuck us twice, shame on you" sounds like a catchphrase of a Vegas cabaret act. The Mitchums are the Penn and Teller ('fool us once...') of the mobster scene, with the ethereal Candie and co. their glamorous assistants. No-one would cross Red, or Bad Coop, or Richard Horne, once and live to tell the tale. Nostalgia hasn't been excised from The Return, it's just been rendered impotent. The Mitchum brothers, with their bad gangster film affectations and cliched dialogue, are men out of time. Evil has moved on and left them behind, preserved in neon, in that most self-parodic of settings, Vegas. I'm loving their double act though, and hope they follow DougieCoop back to Twin Peaks. Who knows, they might even end up on the side of Good in the showdown with Evil.

Candie's paroxysms of guilt, after accidentally striking Rodney, contrast sharply with Richard and Steven's unapologetic abuse. These male abusers pathetic transgressions are rooted in a childish, misguided sense of entitlement. Candie claims no such privilege.

What could be more romantic than the inexorable attraction of two inveterate cynics, drawn into each other's orbits, fiercely independent stars becoming binary? And yet, even here, in this hopeful moment, there is a tinge of sadness, as real life intrudes. Gordon and Tammy's knowing winks and and expressions of delight, as Constance and Albert bond, seem artificially heightened, like the reactions of the witnesses at Richard's hit and run; eerily reminiscent of DoppelCoop's unsettling impersonation of the Good Dale in Ep4. Even when things are right, there is clearly something wrong.

We already know Albert went rogue once, disclosing confidential information to 'Jeffries', and the revelations of Diane's cryptic communications with DoppelCoop, and Cole's confirmation of how her hug was 'off', suggest we can't take anything, or anyone, at face value in this maze of doppelgängers and imposters. In a world of mimicry, sincerity seems fake. And what to make of the ominous soundtrack as Tammy sashays into view, approaching Cole's hotel room like a viper? In this disorienting environment, the floor beneath our feet shifts and shatters, almost as soon as that distinctive chevron design looms into view, lulling us into a false sense of familiarity.

As determined as we are to impose some order, or discern Lynch's intentions, The Return resists reduction: shape-shifting and transforming, like a phantom; evading detection, eluding interpretation, dissolving before our gaze, like snow in spring.

The Log Lady's words to Hawk are infused with real pathos, drawing their power from not only the mythology of Twin Peaks, but the world beyond the script and the screen, infused with a bracing dose of authenticity. A bone-chilling elegy for dying world delivered by a terminally ill actress. As graceful, poetic and powerful as anything in The Return so far, segueing into that beautiful performance by Rebekah del Rio. No stars. The glow is dying. The light is fading. The last flicker of hope has almost been extinguished. Lynch has taken us to the brink of hopelessness. It is from this dark place that we are ready to return.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:47 am

Ross wrote:
Ragnell wrote:So Miriam's letter not matching the credits and the glitch when Tammy approached the door are being written off as production mistakes that will never come up again. Just like the seating change at the Double-R in ep 7.

I just think that's a really weird prevailing attitude in this fandom when we all know the main series villain's true origin is that a setdresser was accidentally trapped on set and then mistakenly caught in a mirror during a shot.

Who knows- right now they could certainly be mistakes. Or they may be intentional. We shall see. I just think its certainly possible a prop error can happen. There are certainly continuity glitches in the old show, and, for instance, Lynch is not very concerned with visual continuity.


Some of them are so glaring that I can't imagine no-one missed in the editing process. I know it's possible to get too close to something you're working on and not see the errors because you've focussed on a different detail, but I'd have thought they'd have had several pairs of eyes checking over these, several times. And, granted, mistakes still slip through. But some of these look too big to miss (in particular the RR scene).
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:14 am

Ragnell wrote:Okay, I was watching the "House By the Video Store" review of this ep and they brought up something that's been in the back of my mind. They suggested that the scene with Dougie and Janey-E was a meta-commentary on how Hollywood handles sexuality.

So, prior to this I couldn't get it out of my mind that THAT event happened in a episode that featured scenes with Johnny Horne, Lucy and Candy. Johnny, Lucy, Candy and Dougie-Coop are all characters that are not just a LITTLE off, but a LOT off. Johnny's clearly severely impaired and needs constant care. Candy seems to have some sort of severe ADD and is not strong on logic. Lucy has always been obsessed with precise communication and slow to process abstract concepts (she may be on the autism spectrum?) and this season it's clearly gotten worse as technology's gotten better, with her problems with the thermostat and inability to process cell phones. And of course, Dougie.

We've got a range of... neurodiverse characters here, here from low-functioning like Johnny to high-functioning like Lucy and Candie. And then we have Dougie, who wasn't functioning at ALL when Jade found him in that house, and who has slowly been getting more active and more functional since then. So I wondered if Lynch was aware of the consent issues with the sex scene and was actually fitting in a bunch of other characters who are underestimated because their brains don't work the way a typical person's do.

The I watch this review: https://youtu.be/hy_gjGmiffM?t=9m44s and they point out that there's heavy emphasis on Cooper's physical condition being perfect, and that they think that the Doctor is ignoring Dougie's mental health because he's so absorbed with his perfect physical health, and they wonder if it's a metacommentary on being absorbed with physical traits and sexuality to the point you ignore someone's well-being. Then they go on to mention that it reminds them of female characters that are shown to have an extremely childlike mentality but are still sexual objects and my thought was... Candie.

I'm not sure where to go beyond that. But I went from suspecting that Lynch was drawing attention to how wrong the scene was to being SURE he was drawing attention to Coop's diminished capacity, even as he was portraying it as a positive experience for Dougie-Coop.

Now, do I think he made Janey-E a villain? No, I don't think he's presenting her as evil. Janey-E genuinely thinks this is another man. There's been arguments like this in comics fandom like , if Doc Ock is in Spider-man's body and sleeps with a girl, or if the Chameleon is pretending to be Peter Parker and sleeps with a girl is it rape... and it's come up in some states, it is because sleeping with your identical twin's spouse without telling them they have the wrong twin is legally rape in NY. However, this isn't like that. This is like finding your wife's identical twin who is stoned out of her mind, thinking it's your wife who has a traumatic brain injury that sometimes leads to echolalia and acting spacey, and sleeping together. Which is a really weird one in a million situation that I doubt either party would feel was an act of violence.

And after this I don't see Cooper going off with another woman now that this marriage is consummated. Cooper doesn't go from woman to woman that easily. Once he regains his senses he's going to explain this to Janey-E, and if she survives and is able to deal with this and remain with him, he will have this family. If she dies or rejects him, he'll finish out the season alone.


Fascinating idea, of the reverse objectification. It certainly does put things in a different light. There was a degree of predatory glee in Janey-E's eyes that, in retrospect, is something women must get all the time.

In regards to that hypothetical scenario I find it a little harder to agree though. I'd imagine the stoned twin would feel like it was still some sort of violation, even though the mistake was understandable and forgivable, even if she enjoyed it. There's a lot to be said for not feeling in control of the situation. It's not an act of violence but it does cross a certain line. Likewise, if I were to find out the person I'd slept with was not my wife but her sister, I'd be devastated - one, for having slept with someone who wasn't who I thought I was sharing that intimate moment with and, two, for being responsible for doing something to another person without their consent.
Last edited by DeepBlueSeed on Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby docLEXfisti » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:24 am

Could you please (and some others) ease up on the double, triple and quadruple posts? You can quote more than once in a post you know.

I find it very distracting. If it's okay on this board though, then please forgive me :D
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:42 am

docLEXfisti wrote:Could you please (and some others) ease up on the double, triple and quadruple posts? You can quote more than once in a post you know.

I find it very distracting. If it's okay on this board though, then please forgive me :D


Easier said than done whilst at work, but I'll try to keep it to a minimum!
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:15 am

What do you guys make of the apparent hidden link from the Hastings blog;

https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comm ... h=8fa1d97a

There is a screenshot of a secret message which reads 'HELLO ANONYMOUS. TO GET TO LEVEL THREE YOU MUST FIND THE BOOK OF THE KEY AND THE LOCK'

The user said that it was accessed by refreshing the browser 119 times but no one has thus far been able to replicate it.

Just a hoax? It is this legit?
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby Methedrome » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:28 am

And speaking of misdirection, I'll wage even more dollars to donuts that Richard is not Audrey's son.

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