Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

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AgentEcho
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:34 pm

Ross wrote:
AgentEcho wrote:Watching the Ike the Spike apprehension scene again, it really plays like Ike has something in his cast. He's not wearing the cast a moment before in his room when he walks over to the suitcase. The camera keys in on it when it's revealed he's got it on, and it's a bit bulky for a flesh wound. But they don't go back to that story after the 20 minute mark... if he had something in there you'd think it would play out right away.

The released ep 9 stills show a scene in the parking lot after Ike is in custody. So we might see something in ep 10.


Yeah the way the editing and the pacing has been it could pretty easily have two scenes that take place moments apart in different episodes (with lots of screen time for other story threads in between).
NewtoTwinPeaks
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby NewtoTwinPeaks » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:49 pm

A couple of questions I didn't see brought up.

1) William Hastings says he doesn't have the coordinates as Ruth wrote them down. If that's the case, why would his secretary have them? Ray was trying to get them from his secretary correct? Or are these separate coordinates? One that Briggs is looking for and ones that helped him enter the 'dimension'?

2) Whoever grabbed William Hastings in the 'dimension', why would they ask for his wife's name? That part seemed unusual but I do remember Bad Cooper telling her she 'mimics' human behavior well.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:08 pm

Hester Prynne wrote:Did anyone notice when Johnny runs into the wall it looks like there are holes and dents in the sheetrock that have been patched and painted over? It looks like running into the wall is a regular occurrence for Johnny.
I just rewatched 9 and wanted to say, when I first watched this scene, when you hear Johnny's collision after he's run out of sight: the scene switches to the room he's in and the camera first shows you the hole. My immediate thought was of the peephole Audrey used to look through to her father's office in S1.
Re-watching just now, I can't tell for sure but as the camera slowly lowers the view to Johnny on the floor, I could believe it's about the right height for a peephole similar, didn't Audrey have to duck down a little in order to look through it?
It might mean nothing; but if there was a purpose for fixing the viewer on that hole first, I'd figure there is something beyond the wall that bears out significance later.
As for whether holes had appeared to be patched-over before -- if you notice in that opening scene with the stairwell and hearing Sylvia calling for Mary, I could see that sort of irregular, uneven surfacing through all the white-painted walls and some of the ceiling. And I can't make up my mind whether it's still the residence-within-the-hotel or not, as some here have wondered. It seemed to be brighter and sunny than most of the Great Northern interiors, but then a lot of scenes this season have more sunlight than S1 or 2 did.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:18 pm

NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:William Hastings says he doesn't have the coordinates as Ruth wrote them down. If that's the case, why would his secretary have them? Ray was trying to get them from his secretary correct? Or are these separate coordinates? One that Briggs is looking for and ones that helped him enter the 'dimension'?
I've become totally confused whether it's the secretary ("Betty"?) or Ruth the librarian having accessed those coordinates. I thought earlier in Part 1 or 2, something Mr C said indicated "I need that information" and he said from Hasting's secretary.

Since we've never seen either the secretary or Ruth [alive] but only heard about them secondhand, I had begun to conflate them as they're both referenced w/ regard to the coordinates. Part 9 I had to watch again to hear Hastings tell Agent Preston it was Ruth who had them copied onto her hand -- before when I watched this I thought he meant his secretary, because of how she was mentioned by Mr C to Ray.

Yet nowhere does Hastings indicate the secretary was in on the whole pursuit of the alternate dimension as he & Ruth were. He mainly spoke of Ruth, and it was revealed in part 9 how the two of them built the website and had this partnership on a shared mission. So with a whole blog operating to that end, with viewers and a donation page etc -- how come Hastings felt he could conceal in the first interrogation that he even knew Ruth? He was like "Uh.. her name's familiar!" Wouldn't he suppose sooner or later that a relationship with someone involved together on a website would be figured out? It adds to my confusion, definitely.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby counterpaul » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:19 pm

NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:William Hastings says he doesn't have the coordinates as Ruth wrote them down. If that's the case, why would his secretary have them? Ray was trying to get them from his secretary correct? Or are these separate coordinates? One that Briggs is looking for and ones that helped him enter the 'dimension'?


I'm thinking that Ray might have been simply lying to COOPER about Betty. One thing that occurred to me is that Ruth wrote the coordinates on her arm. Her body is missing. Whoever has that body has those coordinates. Ray certainly seems to have some secrets.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby NewtoTwinPeaks » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:25 pm

Framed_Angel wrote:
NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:William Hastings says he doesn't have the coordinates as Ruth wrote them down. If that's the case, why would his secretary have them? Ray was trying to get them from his secretary correct? Or are these separate coordinates? One that Briggs is looking for and ones that helped him enter the 'dimension'?
I've become totally confused whether it's the secretary ("Betty"?) or Ruth the librarian having accessed those coordinates. I thought earlier in Part 1 or 2, something Mr C said indicated "I need that information" and he said from Hasting's secretary.

Since we've never seen either the secretary or Ruth [alive] but only heard about them secondhand, I had begun to conflate them as they're both referenced w/ regard to the coordinates. Part 9 I had to watch again to hear Hastings tell Agent Preston it was Ruth who had them copied onto her hand -- before when I watched this I thought he meant his secretary, because of how she was mentioned by Mr C to Ray.

Yet nowhere does Hastings indicate the secretary was in on the whole pursuit of the alternate dimension as he & Ruth were. He mainly spoke of Ruth, and it was revealed in part 9 how the two of them built the website and had this partnership on a shared mission. So with a whole blog operating to that end, with viewers and a donation page etc -- how come Hastings felt he could conceal in the first interrogation that he even knew Ruth? He was like "Uh.. her name's familiar!" Wouldn't he suppose sooner or later that a relationship with someone involved together on a website would be figured out? It adds to my confusion, definitely.


I agreed on that, definitely some confusion there. I do believe there are 2 coordinates in place though. I think Briggs' coordinates may have to do with the place Cooper saw him in (Part 3) given Hastings said his head disappeared (perhaps White Lodge)?
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby NewtoTwinPeaks » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:26 pm

counterpaul wrote:
NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:William Hastings says he doesn't have the coordinates as Ruth wrote them down. If that's the case, why would his secretary have them? Ray was trying to get them from his secretary correct? Or are these separate coordinates? One that Briggs is looking for and ones that helped him enter the 'dimension'?


I'm thinking that Ray might have been simply lying to COOPER about Betty. One thing that occurred to me is that Ruth wrote the coordinates on her arm. Her body is missing. Whoever has that body has those coordinates. Ray certainly seems to have some secrets.


Possible. But I think Cooper is too cunning and smart to be played by Ray (although Ray did play him with the whole gun thing). Perhaps Jeffries has them as well as Ray?
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Daliz » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:32 pm

The Hastings/secretary/Ruth thing sure is confusing.

Mr C was tricked with the gun so I think it is possible that Ray has lied to him about the coordinates. Mr C is definitely very smart and gets things done his way with the power of money and intimidation. But he is not perfect.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby zmccain » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:42 pm

NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:
counterpaul wrote:
NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:William Hastings says he doesn't have the coordinates as Ruth wrote them down. If that's the case, why would his secretary have them? Ray was trying to get them from his secretary correct? Or are these separate coordinates? One that Briggs is looking for and ones that helped him enter the 'dimension'?


I'm thinking that Ray might have been simply lying to COOPER about Betty. One thing that occurred to me is that Ruth wrote the coordinates on her arm. Her body is missing. Whoever has that body has those coordinates. Ray certainly seems to have some secrets.


Possible. But I think Cooper is too cunning and smart to be played by Ray (although Ray did play him with the whole gun thing). Perhaps Jeffries has them as well as Ray?


I'm starting to think it's a real possibility that Jeffries wanted the coordinates as well. We need to remember that Jeffries paid Ray and what'sherface to kill Evil Cooper.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby kafard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:43 pm

If... sorry for the spoilers :

https://youtu.be/VRWUCRkyr_w
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wAtChLaR
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby wAtChLaR » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:49 pm

3rd viewing
this is all proceeding as planned
this is cinema
not cable television
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wAtChLaR
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby wAtChLaR » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:19 pm

AND of course disorders progress with age
even personality characteristics


Lucy and Andy are functioning A.OK for their predispositions of neuroses
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby wAtChLaR » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:26 pm

and Frank Truman is good as all in my book
i truly don't miss Harry as much as i thought i would.....it's amazing
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HagbardCeline
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby HagbardCeline » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:30 pm

NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:A couple of questions I didn't see brought up.

1) William Hastings says he doesn't have the coordinates as Ruth wrote them down. If that's the case, why would his secretary have them? Ray was trying to get them from his secretary correct? Or are these separate coordinates? One that Briggs is looking for and ones that helped him enter the 'dimension'?

2) Whoever grabbed William Hastings in the 'dimension', why would they ask for his wife's name? That part seemed unusual but I do remember Bad Cooper telling her she 'mimics' human behavior well.


I brought them up a few posts ago, trying to figure out the Hastings/Ruth/Secretary timeline.

1. Hastings/Ruth figure out the coordinates from some old government document.
2. They go to coordinates at appointed time and there's a portal, through which they meet The Major.
3. He asks them to get him some different coordinates from a secure government resource.
4. Hastings/Ruth get the coordinates. At some point during this process, the secretary gets the info too? (Ray says she knows what he knows?)
5. Ruth writes the coordinates down on her hand so she won't forget them.
6. They go back to the Portal and give the coordinates to Briggs whose body floats up (like??????) head then disappears from hearing the numbers.
7. While this is going on they are attacked "There were so many people there" (Woodsmen?) Ruth is killed (head pushed in by Woodsman hands?)
8. Hastings cradles her as she dies.
9. Hastings wakes up back in his bed. (Ruth's head/Briggs Body transported to *her* bed somehow).

I wonder if Hastings' return home was similar to Briggs' return after his trip to the White Lodge in the original series. He showed up in a WW1 flying ace outfit with both loss of time and displacement of time. I just can't quite understand why Briggs going to the White Lodge again (or his head anyway) would somehow lead to Ruth's death (and not Hastings too?)

Cooper didn't say she mimicked human behavior, he was basically telling her that she was soooo predictable. "You follow human nature perfectly." She turned on her husband. She immediately invited George over to bang while her husband was in the lockup. DoppleCoop kills her with George's gun. He comes over and finds her dead body...doesn't realize it was his gun, calls police...etc etc etc. There is the theory from weeks ago that the ripple in her head was a lodge denizen leaving her as she's shot, but I think that was just Lynch adding an affect to hide dodgy brain spattering FX?

It's funny thinking about how the whole Buckhorn SD plot would have made its own TV show though doesn't it?

School Principal and school librarian discover a mutual interest in the occult. Some unseen foreign guy (H.V.) collaborates with Hastings on a blog, and possibly even steers Hastings towards a discovery. On the surface Hastings and his wife seem like the perfect family, but secretly she's having an affair with her Lawyer. He knows about it, and doesn't hold back as the mutual attraction with Ruth grows. They make some discoveries. DoppleCoop arrives on the scene and starts banging Hastings' wife too. (...and ONE OTHER GUY he says to her in the jail scene). Ostensibly to keep tabs on her Husband's activities since he seems to be getting close to something. Hastings and Ruth have the breakthrough and open the portal. They see The Major who tells them where to find some other coordinates and how. They do the break-in and get the coordinates to the Major whose head floats off and then all hell breaks loose as the Woodsmen come and murder Ruth. Hastings wakes up in his bed. Ruth is found dead, later arrested...etc etc etc. Sounds like an exciting show. What happens in Season 2?
Last edited by HagbardCeline on Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Trudy Chelgren
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Trudy Chelgren » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:11 am

OK-

I've watched Part 9 a second time now, and it sat better with me. I feel the push-pull dynamic that can throw me, and a lot of you I'm sure, is that The Return cannot decide when it wants to be a TV show, and exploit the 'episode' format, and when it wants to be runtime in an 18 hour film. I think this can be good and bad; Parts 1 & 2, Part 3 and Part 8 are great examples of 'TV episodes', in their construction, pacing and events. Part 7 and Part 9 are more like collections of scenes, part of a broader context. I find it hard to shift from one to another.

I do still think Part 9 is the weakest so far, for me at least. It's very Frostian, cerebral and uninvolving connection-making and mystery really doesn't sit well with me. It's too transparent and explanatory, (I still can't believe that the words 'alternate reality' were said aloud in Twin Peaks, it's just too obvious) and unnecessarily complex. What worries me, is that if this approach is a symptom of where we're going. I think if the story embraces connecting dots over dream-like mystery and ambiguous character progressions, (which it has done to an extent, but the overtly Frostian connections have really reared their head lately) then I at least will feel a little less warmly about it. At the moment, to me, Cooper's story is suffering because of it; we saw so little of him, and I felt he was the anchor this season revolves around, whereas the mystery of "what's going on, and what's the point they're trying to make?" is what is front and centre right now. There's too many people involved and too much noise, I need some Parts with only Cooper for a long time.

What I saw when I re-watched Part 9 were more positives; Albert is still uneven, but his chemistry with Constance was such a delight. It was nice seeing him keeping that wry smile under control. The laughing detective cracks me up, Jerry's foot was bizarre, the smoking scene was great, and Tammy's steadfast, no-nonsense foil to Hastings' protracted crying was so measured and really helps tone the genuine damage and pity and silly overacting into something more even.

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