Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

[Jasper]

As some posters have already noted before, the White Lodge/Black Lodge terminology may be way too simplistic. There may be more realms and more factions in play, all with their own agendas ranging from benevolent to sinister. One thing that has struck me. Has any of the Lodge spirits ever spoken about their worlds as being called White/Black Lodges? Or is it only humans who have called them that? Little Man from Another Place called the Red Curtain realm a 'waiting room', but never said anything about a Lodge.

DoppelCoop said to Darya that he was supposed to go back to "what they call the Black Lodge" in episode 3

Annie calls it "the lodge" after having been there (in Laura's FWWM dream and in the TMP). As for the MFAP, I don't think you can be sure that he's referring to the entire realm as "the waiting room". I've never believed that myself. I think he's referring to the space/situation of that very scene. It's before the big fiery explosion, which leads to Cooper leaving that room and facing off with Earle, etc., which is the beginning of his real trial.

I've always wondered if the idea for that line came about when one of the cast or crew looked at the setup of chairs and said "Wow, this looks like the world's weirdest waiting room."

[Jasper]

1. In episode 6, when the boy dies, we get to acknowledge a concept: the soul. I think that ????? is actually a group of souls, a cluster of souls, belonging to the Light. He could be The One, The Human Consciousness Singularity. What we see when the swarm of lights come out of ??????, is actually a gathering of souls. They choose one to take on the mission, to reveal the Truth. Laura does that through her diary and her death. I don't recognize the pattern that the light swarm makes. It definitely looks like a really well defined pattern, but I don't know what it means.

2. Has anyone noticed the stairs, when ?????? is about to enter the 'theater room'. On the right side, where ?????? is walking up, the stair rugs are in good condition, maybe signifying a less used path. The left side stair rugs are completely worn out. Maybe it means that souls come more often, to this realm, than they leave.

3. The sudden appearance and movement of Laura's orb, in Earth's realm, resembles that of sudden materialization and movement of UFOs/orbs, in certain NASA videos.

4. Another issue I'm wondering is is there a link between the gold nugget that was created in the atomic blast and the Ring, which I assume it's made out of gold. It's not a big chunk, the view is zooming in to atomic/particle level, then crossing a threshold and we see the other dimension. Also, what's the connection with the gold nugget that's left behind when Dougie gets terminated. Mike makes it clear that Dougie is a construct, a machine, but I don't understand the connection between his gold nugget and the others. Or what the gold nuggets really are, considering that we see the type of receivers Bad Coop uses, that turn into gold nuggets.

5. The insect/frog hybrid is an unnatural creature, it is not Laura. Forcing itself on the girl, with the help of the woodsman, while she's unaware, means it's an agent of Evil. Also, the girl frowns, at the closing credits.

6. Who/what is the Mother of Bob. She is one source of Evil, but I'm not sure how she's connected to the woodsmen.

7. Who/what is Senorita Dido. As with ??????, we see her in a human form, as a woman, but she's not a woman. Nor ?????? is a man. Dido might be related to the queen of Carthage, in greek mythology. But I don't see the connection.

8. Before ?????? switches off the alarm, he looks at us, the audience, analyzing us...

9. I don't see the connection between Cooper and Laura, except they both are agents of Light.

I think Lynch would be pained to see you using six (and five) question marks.

Six is a negative number, and seven is a positive number (in the world of Lynch). The giant's name is seven question marks for a very specific reason.

[Jasper]

Why do you think they picked an Abraham Lincoln impersonator to play the main Woodsman? It has to be intentional, right? I mean, the guy has only played Abe Lincoln in all his credited roles until Twin Peaks. Can't imagine that Johanna Ray randomly discovered him, unless she was specifically looking for someone like him. He was terrifying.

I'm sure that it's connected in some way to the penny found by the 50s girl.

The fact that Abraham Lincoln grew up in a log cabin is also kind of Peaksy.

[alreadygoneplaces]

Regardless, just think how differently everything would have turned out if only someone had just given that poor man a light...

He just wanted to light that dang cigarette is all....

FWIW... I was looking up Oppenheimer on Wikipedia and apparently he was a huge chain smoker and was rarely seen without a cigarette. I don't think it means anything, but kind of an interesting, possible nod.

Someone on Reddit was talking about how the evil spirits on this show have always used technology to travel or manifest, and fire is mankind's original technology, so makes sense these Woodsmen are obsessed with it, maybe. And also, y'know, fire walk with me and all.

I love the 'gotta light?' line. At first I thought about its significance around the obvious dark/light theme, then I laughed when I realised he isn't asking for light, he's asking for fire...

[krishnanspace]

without Laura no Cooper.

This part puzzles me. Why would there be no Cooper without Laura?

Well, he probably never would have come to Twin Peaks, unless he'd later gotten a break on the Teresa Banks murder that led him to Leland.

This^

[oxyboldine]

Beautiful episode with wonderful sound and Badalamenti musics, associated to the moving paintings of Lynch. "Wow"

The first part with C and Ray made by brain explode this night after seing the episode (I'm writing from France, so here I just "wake up" )

What if the Mister C. Timeline is " Past " ? And Dougie is " future " ?
Past :
- Mister C. kills Garland Briggs in an attempt to find the Owl Cave Ring. But Briggs has previously given it to a certain Dougie Jones (and Dougie had to exchange it with his own ring, that Briggs ate?!).
- Buckhorn case. Ray has to find the coordinates of the Owl Cave Ring, that Betty Briggs knows (killing her?). Mister C. can't do that himself because this is the day he will be pulled back in the Black Lodge soon.
- Mr C is in his car in the desert. In the "waiting room", Cooper thinks he can come out, but no, he goes to another place for some time. In New York, the two young dies seing "mother"/the experiment.
- Mr C avoids returning back in the black Lodge. In prison, Bob is still with him. Cole, Albert and Diane visits him.
- Mr C escapes with Ray from prison. Ray shoots him... but fails.
- (pure theory for ep9) : Mr C finds Ray back, obtains the coordinates for the Owl Cave Ring. He kills Ray, and the coordinates leads, in fact, to Dougie Jones. Mr C. finds the Owl cave Ring. He finds Dougie Jones and "inhabits him" or do some "manufacturing" trick on him and his family.

For some years, he lives as Dougie. It goes with love for gamble and prostitutes.

Then, Phillip Jeffries finds him and sends new killers on his track.

We are now in the Present :
- Good Cooper comes back, but Dougie Jones arrives in the Lodge instead of Bob. Something is wrong. Where is Bob now?

Well I don't know if this works... I guess the Phillip Jeffries working with Ray to kill Mr C made me thought about that idea of Jeffries finding Mr C back years after as Dougie Jones.

[BigEd]

But I'll focus on the practical, current time story. Has it been discussed or speculated if Mr. C was setup the entire time? Was Ray in on a plan? He had a gun on him, and Mr. C's planted gun was a decoy. But the Warden wouldn't want him killed because he feared his own life would be destroyed. Who was helping Ray on the inside?

Our first clue was when it was reported that Ray wound up in federal prison for "running guns across state lines." Unless they were howitzers, I think the message was that something was up.

[BigEd]

I sort of found the BOB scene with the abomb a reflection of what Albert said in season 2. Maybe BOB is just the evil that men do, something along those lines...abombs have been nothing but evil when you look at them, so it isn't surprising that they opened up a doorway to something possibly even more evil

Ironically, the number of people who died in wars was increasing exponentially, throughout history, until the A bomb abruptly ended WWII. The pattern was then broken, and much fewer people have died in wars since that time than historical trends would have indicated. Sad as it is, it isn't the bombs, it's the people. Started with Cain and Able and will never end.

[Driftwood]

I sort of found the BOB scene with the abomb a reflection of what Albert said in season 2. Maybe BOB is just the evil that men do, something along those lines...abombs have been nothing but evil when you look at them, so it isn't surprising that they opened up a doorway to something possibly even more evil

Ironically, the number of people who died in wars was increasing exponentially, throughout history, until the A bomb abruptly ended WWII. The pattern was then broken, and much fewer people have died in wars since that time than historical trends would have indicated. Sad as it is, it isn't the bombs, it's the people. Started with Cain and Able and will never end.

soldiers killing soldiers is a little different from vaporizing civilians in nuclear fire

[LostInTheMovies]

I think that girl who swallows the beetle is Mrs. Tremond.

Well then she aged quite a bit in 33 years!!

(fwiw, the actress who plays Mrs. Tremond was 37 years old in August 1956)

[Daliz]

Well this episode is a new level of weird. I'm pretty sure no-one guessed correctly as to who was going to say "Gotta light?"

I think I need to rewatch to "make sense of it".

Ray shooting Badcoop and Woodsmen appearing - great great scene.
I think the explosion and flying through fire and smoke was just too long. It was beautiful but I think it was just too long.
Also ??????? scenes were good but rreeeaalllyy slow. I don't have an issue with the slow pace of S3 in general but this was just.. slow.

I don't have much to add to these theories. As to whether the lodgefolk/Mother/etc are aliens, some spirit world/dimension or just metaphor for evil-that-men-do and the loss of innocence I don't know, but I do not think they were actually born of this explosion, it just offered a way of expansion into "our" world. This witnessed by ???????: Laura being sent to counter the evil, not by combat but maybe just as a "balance" thing. Yin and yang kind of way. Or maybe just fodder/target for BOB. Maybe Laura/Laura's spirit existing prevents BOB from reaching all of his potential would explain why he wanted Laura as his host so bad.

The eggs and the frog-insect thing just screams "evil" to me. Is it BOB or again just a general metaphor for evil seeds being spread to people. The Woodsman definitely seems to be helping the creature/creatures enter hosts.

I was wondering if this convenience store scene is actually the same convenience store meeting just seen from the outside.

I don't think the kids are anyone we know specifically.

[LostInTheMovies]

Why do you think they picked an Abraham Lincoln impersonator to play the main Woodsman? It has to be intentional, right? I mean, the guy has only played Abe Lincoln in all his credited roles until Twin Peaks. Can't imagine that Johanna Ray randomly discovered him, unless she was specifically looking for someone like him. He was terrifying.

I'm sure that it's connected in some way to the penny found by the 50s girl.

Was just thinking this on second viewing - the guy comes down from the sky exactly after she finds the penny. Classic scenario of Twin Peaks treating spirit-human world interactions as if mutually motivated.

[BigEd]

I sort of found the BOB scene with the abomb a reflection of what Albert said in season 2. Maybe BOB is just the evil that men do, something along those lines...abombs have been nothing but evil when you look at them, so it isn't surprising that they opened up a doorway to something possibly even more evil

Ironically, the number of people who died in wars was increasing exponentially, throughout history, until the A bomb abruptly ended WWII. The pattern was then broken, and much fewer people have died in wars since that time than historical trends would have indicated. Sad as it is, it isn't the bombs, it's the people. Started with Cain and Able and will never end.

soldiers killing soldiers is a little different from vaporizing civilians in nuclear fire

Maybe not from the perspective of those soldiers who were dragged unwillingly out of civilian life and sent away from home to die. That is how it always worked in the past.

Hopefully you do understand this.

Anyways, I was just introducing some facts that might help some folks see history a bit clearer. Evil didn't enter the world with the A bomb.

[firefly2193]

Does Gordon Cole having a picture of the nuclear blast represent simple foreshadowing, or a suggestion that Cole knows more about whats going on in these 'Blue Rose' cases than he's letting on (to his agents etc)?

Did others find the way the boy in the 1950s scene persists after the girl rejects his request for a kiss really creepy (just from the mood created, not necessarily the act on its own) and give very subtle allusions to the sexual abuse at the heart of original Twin Peaks?

[Driftwood]

Did others find the way the boy in the 1950s scene persists after the girl rejects his request for a kiss really creepy (just from the mood created, not necessarily the act on its own) and give very subtle allusions to the sexual abuse at the heart of original Twin Peaks?

by itself I probably wouldn't have thought much of it. but that plus the bruises on her knees and the bug coming in through the window and into her mouth, the bug being helped by the woodsman, who operate out of the convenience store they store garmonbozia in, and were also show tending to bob at the beginning of the episode, all that together makes me think this is maybe a girl in trouble or soon to be.