Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

[StrangerDanger]

...

Hi there, l picked up on how you didn't like the electric tree with the "mango head", however, its clumsy appearance when Lynch and Frost could have made it look like anything, is the first indication that it's deliberate.

As l pointed out, there are parallels beetween the Forbidden Tree and the Serpent, and the staffs of the Pharaoh's sorcerors turning into serpents, and the sibilant Tree in Series 3. Also, you know how evil electricity / TV interference is throughout the entire Twin Peaks mythos. Also look at the artowork on Julee Cruise's "The Voice of Love", which Lynch had a hand in (see the discogs credit here: https://www.discogs.com/Julee-Cruise-Th ... aster/5124 ), and LAURA (in hindsight) showed a sapling whilst saying "Meanwhile ...". If the fight with MJA was genuine, then does that mean Lynch is manipulating time? Because it feels like he stormed off in 2016 and created Tree in 1993 and LAURA's Meanwhile Sapling in 1990 / 1991 / 1992 or whatever year it was. Spooky goings on.

[ BTW l agree that l didn't like the new style too much, whereas FWWM was a real "page turner" in its pacing. However, this is Lynch and Frost, this is cult stuff, they are primarily here to tell us something, anything else is just packaging and secondary considerations (my opinion). ]

[Jerry Horne]

There's nothing wrong with disagreement and vigorous discussion. Let's do it with common courtesy.

[gladhand]

It'll be interesting to see how/if the Phillip Jeffries story develops. Clearly Lynch probably wanted Bowie to return to reprise the role, it's interesting that he's still part of these first two episodes.

PJ's scenes in FWWM and the missing pieces are some of the best ever, I think. Maybe they'll revisit Buenos Aires?

[mlsstwrt]

But in terms of caring for the characters, it hasn't been a priority for Lynch in what we've seen so far.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly - if you say it hasn't been a priority for Lynch in his previous films, I totally disagree but that seems to be way off-topic, so let's leave it.
If you say it hasn't been a priority in this new Twin Peaks, well clearly it hasn't. Yet it remains priority for me because for me film as a medium is above all about identification. After the first two parts, I don't find anything to identify with at all.

Therefore...

I'd like to respond to this because I immediately, from that glove moment on, fell totally in love with Constance and Dave. I really hope we haven't seen the last of them. Both performances are beautifully understated (and I can imagine some people saying that Dave comes off as "wooden," but I would completely disagree--he's just not a very demonstrative guy) and hint at real depth. I also thought the "uh-oh" guy was great--there's real shock and sadness behind those uh-oh's.

In fact, I think the whole Buckhorn section has tremendous worth all on its own. I want to talk about the arrest and interrogation scenes. They completely crackle! I mean, we've all seen a million arrest/interrogation scenes in a million procedural cop shows/movies, but these scenes are special because they're not at all about solving a crime--they're about being part of an unavoidable machine. From the moment the prints come up as Bill's, there's a specific, intimate heaviness to the police officers' jobs. Hell, Dave's in almost as much pain as Bill--THAT'S what these scenes are about. By the way, the cops in Buckhorn are by far the most competent officers we've seen in Twin Peaks (and, yes, I'm including Harry and Coop in this)--they do their jobs by god, professionally and methodically. It's actually really nice to see--just the competence of it.

Both performances in that interrogation scene are beautifully measured and quite moving, and when Dave has to take Bill to his cell, it's devastating. Again, they're both part of a machine--for Dave, a totally necessary machine, but just because he can tell himself he's doing the right thing, that doesn't make it any easier--despite a lifetime of friendship.

Matthew Lillard is rightfully getting a lot of praise, but take a real look at what's behind Brent Briscoe's eyes. It's great work.

So, how's that?

Well that's great and I'm happy for you. However I must say that I had no idea who Constance and Dave were when I first saw this post. Your post reminds me of Dave but I still don't remember Constance. And I've seen the first part twice. Sorry, it just didn't catch my attention, all of it


My friend, whom I mentioned before, wrote a big text in Polish about how he felt. I'm not going to translate all of it but some issues perhaps are worth quoting as the critical voices here are rather minority.
He starts with how much of a crazed fan he is, how obsessed he was with the come back of Twin Peaks and so on... well that's nothing new for most of us here, so let's go on
Then he writes that he's not even disappointed... rather sad.
1) He loved the Twin Peaks uncanny, weird mood, with dark things creeping under the surface, not the permanent schizo-trippy darkness all around... he calls the film threatening, unpleasant and irritating.
2) He loved the Twin Peaks colours - warm and woody. Instead he gets a world drawn in cold and dirty colours, a world of metal and glass.
3) Lack of music - he says he sees that it is an intentional thing but is unable to understand the motives of such a decision (neither am I!!!).
4) Characters - more or less what I wrote, too. They used to be interesting from the first scenes, while here they either repell him or leave him indifferent.
5) Lack of magic - he loved the way the evil in old Twin Peaks was portrayed as primitive, originating from the woods. On the other hand here it seems to be more of technological evil. Like, we used to have owls, now we have cameras.
6) Locations - OK, that's pure sentiment, but he obviously doesn't appreciate the variety of locations. Snoqualmie all he way! (he travelled there 2 or 3 times and it's a long way from Poland...)
7) No humour whatsoever.

I basically agree with all above.

GREAT post. Sums up my feelings very well indeed.

[Agent327]

But in terms of caring for the characters, it hasn't been a priority for Lynch in what we've seen so far.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly - if you say it hasn't been a priority for Lynch in his previous films, I totally disagree but that seems to be way off-topic, so let's leave it.

No, that would make no sense.

I was only talking about this series. "What we've seen so far" meaning the first 4 episode of the new series.
It is in stark contrast to the "characters are everything" approach of the original series, and of some of Lynch's previous work.

Not off topic. Was addressing your point regarding 'character', and what makes these first few episodes a harder watch.

For this series to be truly treasured, you have to be into weirdness and innovative imagery first, and character/story second or not at all. That may slightly shift as it goes on, I expect some of that, but we're almost 25 % through the series so at the very least it's testing the patience of a large part of the audience in a radical way.

[Rami Airola]

Jacoby is spray painting the shovels gold? Interestingly enough (perhaps) the shovel(s) used to break ground on the Great Northern were gold.

I wonder if the symbolism here was that it needs time to make a golden finished product, which can then be used for each to dig what they wish with them.

One thing I would like to know, if a fair poll could be taken, is what percentage of die hard fans like us love the new series as much as the old. It seems the large majority of us are embracing the new show, but among those that are either not liking it at all or not fully embracing it) are some very frequent posters and even admin members who have been on this board a long time.

If a poll would be made it would also need to have an option of "first hated it, now loving it" or something like that.
I'm still not a fan of the first episode (even though I like them more now than what I initially thought of it), but because of episodes 3&4 I'm absolutely 110% on board now.

[Rami Airola]

However, stating it has nothing to do with the past two series does seem a little premature, with so many hours left.

Yeah, this goes both ways though.

It seems some are saying this is nothing like Twin Peaks should be and it might never be, and that's why they don't like it.
Some are saying this shouldn't be what Twin Peaks used to be and that makes it so great.

Both opinions could end up wrong. It might completely change into what Twin Peaks used to be. What would both sides say then? That somehow it all was ok and good in retrospect. Or for the other side, somehow it suddenly now is ok and great for Twin Peaks to be what it used to be?

I've seen some condescending tones from both sides here. Not sure if I've been making condescending remarks as it's often hard to notice from own posts. But I've definitely seen a certain "attitude" coming from both the "haters" and the "lovers." I think it's ok though. It's ok to have things a bit heated moments in discussiones once in a while.

[Hockey Mask]

But in terms of caring for the characters, it hasn't been a priority for Lynch in what we've seen so far.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly - if you say it hasn't been a priority for Lynch in his previous films, I totally disagree but that seems to be way off-topic, so let's leave it.
If you say it hasn't been a priority in this new Twin Peaks, well clearly it hasn't. Yet it remains priority for me because for me film as a medium is above all about identification. After the first two parts, I don't find anything to identify with at all.

Therefore...

I'd like to respond to this because I immediately, from that glove moment on, fell totally in love with Constance and Dave. I really hope we haven't seen the last of them. Both performances are beautifully understated (and I can imagine some people saying that Dave comes off as "wooden," but I would completely disagree--he's just not a very demonstrative guy) and hint at real depth. I also thought the "uh-oh" guy was great--there's real shock and sadness behind those uh-oh's.

In fact, I think the whole Buckhorn section has tremendous worth all on its own. I want to talk about the arrest and interrogation scenes. They completely crackle! I mean, we've all seen a million arrest/interrogation scenes in a million procedural cop shows/movies, but these scenes are special because they're not at all about solving a crime--they're about being part of an unavoidable machine. From the moment the prints come up as Bill's, there's a specific, intimate heaviness to the police officers' jobs. Hell, Dave's in almost as much pain as Bill--THAT'S what these scenes are about. By the way, the cops in Buckhorn are by far the most competent officers we've seen in Twin Peaks (and, yes, I'm including Harry and Coop in this)--they do their jobs by god, professionally and methodically. It's actually really nice to see--just the competence of it.

Both performances in that interrogation scene are beautifully measured and quite moving, and when Dave has to take Bill to his cell, it's devastating. Again, they're both part of a machine--for Dave, a totally necessary machine, but just because he can tell himself he's doing the right thing, that doesn't make it any easier--despite a lifetime of friendship.

Matthew Lillard is rightfully getting a lot of praise, but take a real look at what's behind Brent Briscoe's eyes. It's great work.

So, how's that?

Well that's great and I'm happy for you. However I must say that I had no idea who Constance and Dave were when I first saw this post. Your post reminds me of Dave but I still don't remember Constance. And I've seen the first part twice. Sorry, it just didn't catch my attention, all of it


My friend, whom I mentioned before, wrote a big text in Polish about how he felt. I'm not going to translate all of it but some issues perhaps are worth quoting as the critical voices here are rather minority.
He starts with how much of a crazed fan he is, how obsessed he was with the come back of Twin Peaks and so on... well that's nothing new for most of us here, so let's go on

7) No humour whatsoever.

I basically agree with all above.

No humor whatsoever?!?! That's not even accurate.

[Jonah]

Small question re: Ben's office (as briefly seen in Episode 1).

Was this set ever used before, perhaps in the pilot? Or was it always the series set with the steps and the huge fireplace and larger office? The pattern behind him is the same, though, right? And I think in the series there was no secretary's office outside, but a large mural of a woodcutter which I miss.

[Let'sRock]

Regarding the giant saying "Its in our house now", I assumed this was a reference to the astrological term, a house of the zodiac. Maybe meaning the gateway to the lodges opening again ("when Jupiter and Saturn meet"), or whichever lodge the giant is from becoming energized and dominant.

Hello by the way, another lurker emerging from the curtains.

[OrsonWelles]

However, stating it has nothing to do with the past two series does seem a little premature, with so many hours left.

Yeah, this goes both ways though.

It seems some are saying this is nothing like Twin Peaks should be and it might never be, and that's why they don't like it.
Some are saying this shouldn't be what Twin Peaks used to be and that makes it so great.

Both opinions could end up wrong. It might completely change into what Twin Peaks used to be. What would both sides say then? That somehow it all was ok and good in retrospect. Or for the other side, somehow it suddenly now is ok and great for Twin Peaks to be what it used to be?

I've seen some condescending tones from both sides here. Not sure if I've been making condescending remarks as it's often hard to notice from own posts. But I've definitely seen a certain "attitude" coming from both the "haters" and the "lovers." I think it's ok though. It's ok to have things a bit heated moments in discussiones once in a while.

Personally I was talking about storyline, perhaps character development, etc. Not tone, quirkiness and subtle menace. I think it might be possible that in the first few hours Twin Peaks will feel like Twin Peaks while the other plotlines are much more darker and chaotic. I don't know. It's perhaps silly to make assumptions in this topic that might be totally obsolete once I see 3&4 (But I'll wait till sunday)

[bowisneski]

What a thing this was. An imperfect thing, but a thing with lots to love that, for me, overall outweighed a few disappointments. Was it Twin Peaks in the way a lot of people compartmentalize and remember it? Not so much, and I feel that was both the most advantageous and disadvantageous thing about what we got. It's a very hard thing to discuss my feelings on this because a lot has already been said, but I am still having trouble articulating my positives and negatives. This post may just be an incomprehensible stream of consciousness jumble, but I hope it comes across slightly more cohesive. I'll cover the negatives first and then the positives.

The biggest disappointment to me was the look of the show. I know not everyone cares or notices, but things shot digitally always look slightly uglier to me than film. It seems as though something important is missing. Even though I know it was shot on high end digital cameras, some scenes just looked like they were shot on the cheapest digital equipment available and somehow managed to come out in HD. If this was Lynch's goal artistically, then I consider my complaints invalid. But, if this was just due to losing the ability to shoot on film to double the episode count, shame on Showtime for not fully funding this vision the way it needed to be.

Almost all of the negatives that follow may serve a purpose as we move forward, but looking at these as we are currently able to, they exist. Everything felt too much as if it is a show of secrets as opposed to a show of mystery, things felt too solid and spelled out. Nothing in these episodes really made me sit and think them through. I didn't feel drawn in to the mystery. Maybe these things will be flipped on their head and I'll have to reexamine, I can only hope. The lack of music, as most have noted, felt really out of place. It feels as if the show is trying to have it's pie and eat it too, where it wants so hard to be tied to Twin Peaks, but it also wants to be it's own thing and can't figure out a balance. It sometimes felt like it lacked depth.

This one isn't really a positive or negative, because I think it depends on who the viewer is, but I still feel it needs to be mentioned - I know Cooper is our main character, but he isn't a solid enough anchor yet for what's happening to pull you in. It works for me because I am familiar with the original and there are strong new characters that engaged me as well as those that are returning who I enjoy, but I feel like it hurts the argument both Frost and Lynch have made that you don't need to be familiar with the original to enjoy The Return.

However, for the positives, I felt as if it came close to where it should be tonally. While I state above that everything felt a little too spelled out, I still feel like it had the mood, darkness, humor, and quirk I wanted. And while there were no mysteries that I felt I needed to mull over, I still can't stop thinking about the show and having the mood infuse itself in to my mind on a fairly solid basis since I watched the episodes. The evolution of The Arm was beautiful and my favorite part of our time in the Lodge/Red Room was the shot where Mike beckoned Cooper. Something was visually striking about the shot and a perfect encapsulation of feeling to me.

I really enjoyed, and was more than pleasantly surprised by, Matthew Lillard as Bill Hastings. His acting was great and I thought he was the strongest part outside of the returning characters. I like the new murder in and the town of Buckhorn being setup, hoping we get to spend more time there and with those new characters like Hastings and Det. Macklay. The whole glass box felt like what if David Lynch directed LOST, and I was fully onboard for that, though I wish that Tracy and Sam hadn't been killed off so quickly. I enjoyed the way both were portrayed and would've liked to see more. The globe trotting was also a positive for me, I look forward to watching it and seeing how it all comes together. It feels as if the trajectory of the entire series has been a slow build outward and I think it will all eventually condense back down to the town of Twin Peaks.

I know some of the above may sound contradictory, but some of the things I like are some of the things that could prove to be detrimental over the long haul and some of the things I'm hesitant about could end up working perfectly in the context of all 18 parts. Overall I enjoyed it for what it was and the viewing experience it provided me with and can't wait to continue along this road that will hopefully get more wonderful and more strange the further we traverse it.

[Venus]

But in terms of caring for the characters, it hasn't been a priority for Lynch in what we've seen so far.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly - if you say it hasn't been a priority for Lynch in his previous films, I totally disagree but that seems to be way off-topic, so let's leave it.
If you say it hasn't been a priority in this new Twin Peaks, well clearly it hasn't. Yet it remains priority for me because for me film as a medium is above all about identification. After the first two parts, I don't find anything to identify with at all.

Therefore...

I'd like to respond to this because I immediately, from that glove moment on, fell totally in love with Constance and Dave. I really hope we haven't seen the last of them. Both performances are beautifully understated (and I can imagine some people saying that Dave comes off as "wooden," but I would completely disagree--he's just not a very demonstrative guy) and hint at real depth. I also thought the "uh-oh" guy was great--there's real shock and sadness behind those uh-oh's.

In fact, I think the whole Buckhorn section has tremendous worth all on its own. I want to talk about the arrest and interrogation scenes. They completely crackle! I mean, we've all seen a million arrest/interrogation scenes in a million procedural cop shows/movies, but these scenes are special because they're not at all about solving a crime--they're about being part of an unavoidable machine. From the moment the prints come up as Bill's, there's a specific, intimate heaviness to the police officers' jobs. Hell, Dave's in almost as much pain as Bill--THAT'S what these scenes are about. By the way, the cops in Buckhorn are by far the most competent officers we've seen in Twin Peaks (and, yes, I'm including Harry and Coop in this)--they do their jobs by god, professionally and methodically. It's actually really nice to see--just the competence of it.

Both performances in that interrogation scene are beautifully measured and quite moving, and when Dave has to take Bill to his cell, it's devastating. Again, they're both part of a machine--for Dave, a totally necessary machine, but just because he can tell himself he's doing the right thing, that doesn't make it any easier--despite a lifetime of friendship.

Matthew Lillard is rightfully getting a lot of praise, but take a real look at what's behind Brent Briscoe's eyes. It's great work.

So, how's that?

Well that's great and I'm happy for you. However I must say that I had no idea who Constance and Dave were when I first saw this post. Your post reminds me of Dave but I still don't remember Constance. And I've seen the first part twice. Sorry, it just didn't catch my attention, all of it


My friend, whom I mentioned before, wrote a big text in Polish about how he felt. I'm not going to translate all of it but some issues perhaps are worth quoting as the critical voices here are rather minority.
He starts with how much of a crazed fan he is, how obsessed he was with the come back of Twin Peaks and so on... well that's nothing new for most of us here, so let's go on
Then he writes that he's not even disappointed... rather sad.
1) He loved the Twin Peaks uncanny, weird mood, with dark things creeping under the surface, not the permanent schizo-trippy darkness all around... he calls the film threatening, unpleasant and irritating.
2) He loved the Twin Peaks colours - warm and woody. Instead he gets a world drawn in cold and dirty colours, a world of metal and glass.
3) Lack of music - he says he sees that it is an intentional thing but is unable to understand the motives of such a decision (neither am I!!!).
4) Characters - more or less what I wrote, too. They used to be interesting from the first scenes, while here they either repell him or leave him indifferent.
5) Lack of magic - he loved the way the evil in old Twin Peaks was portrayed as primitive, originating from the woods. On the other hand here it seems to be more of technological evil. Like, we used to have owls, now we have cameras.
6) Locations - OK, that's pure sentiment, but he obviously doesn't appreciate the variety of locations. Snoqualmie all he way! (he travelled there 2 or 3 times and it's a long way from Poland...)
7) No humour whatsoever.

I basically agree with all above.

GREAT post. Sums up my feelings very well indeed.

I too think this is a great post and very insightful. Thanks for sharing it. I just noticed how ironic is my signature right now.

[Mairzy]

I think the format is playing a part in concerns. It is structurally so different from the first two seasons. There is a reason in itself as to why they pushed 4 episodes out like they did. It is stream of conciousness fiction with a disregard for pause. I think splitting it up correctly is a huge challenge for them.

Lord knows what it will be like when weekly eps hit.

Eps 1 and 2 are not really seperate episodes, they are not episodic. Finding a piece of flesh in the boot of Hasting's vehicle is not the natural end point for ep 1. It is a bit jarring. A series without natural cliffhangers and random stretches of folly is discombobulating a good few fans. Yet viewed as a whole, I hope, like many have mentioned in literature, things could satisfy more as the novel chapters turn.

Patience is a virtue. Luckily I'm enjoying TP3 and the opinions so far.

[chalfont]

Well, I said all along it would be divisive. Sorry to see some of the vitriol early in the thread, as the whole thing so far has thrilled me beyond words. I wish everyone could have the same experience. The idea that this is going to last all summer long is just what the doctor ordered. I love the handmade look of the effects, the Evolution of the Arm...the whole thing is like a mashup of Lynch's entire career. My guess is that the town of Twin Peaks will take on more prominence as Cooper presumably makes his way back there...by which point the people who are upset about the lack of Twin Peaks material will probably have abandoned the show, but oh well.

Had the same thought about the black and white opening - that it's the White Lodge at some other time. Is it past? Is it future?

Definitly future. Thw camera moves forward across the zig zag floor into that scene - then backwards - and the show begins.