The Tremonds

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boske
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:10 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
boske wrote:Yes, that is a very interesting parallel. Lynch and Frost seem to be using the idea of dimensions indicating what forces are driving events. Cooper is falling into non-existence, while Laura is being raised up in the lodge, which would therefore hint (if this reasoning makes sense), that it is the Fireman who actually whisked Laura away. With Cooper falling earlier, it was clear who was behind it.


But Laura ends up in Odessa? Why would the Fireman put her there?

Odessa as part of Cooper's Odyssey, at least Frost hinted of S3 as of Copper's odyssey back to town of Twin Peaks. But they (Fireman and Dido) did put her there, Laura's soul was incarnated there, at least according to that globe display we saw. Why was she whisked? Maybe she told Cooper something she shouldn't have or maybe she just had to incarnate for Cooper to achieve something. But how she was taken out of the lodge clearly looked like an action from "higher up". I need to rewatch it for sure.

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
boske wrote:The same thing happened with two visits to Jeffries, while Mr. C. Had to climb two sets of stairs up, Cooper instead had to descend to the hotel basement to reach the second stairs. And "real" Cooper did not need anybody to unlock the door to Jeffies for him.


We don’t actually see who opened the Jeffries door the second time (my hunch is it was the Great Northern 315 key again, but I have nothing to support that). That sequence is fascinating to me on a production level. Multiple people following the shooting at the time confirmed that the crew got to the Mt. Si Motel way later than anticipated (in the very early morning hours of the next day) to shoot the Dutchman’s/Red Diamond City Motel scenes. This also was seemingly the very last night of Washington shooting. Resultantly, a planned night shoot of Sarah in a Washington supermarket was scrapped (and was later shot in California during the day instead). There was also a rumor that they didn’t get all the planned shots at the Mt. Si Motel. Part 17 (when “original” Cooper visits the Dutchman’s) clearly doesn’t contain any actual footage shot at the location except for one static shot with no one in it. I’ve been wondering if they meant to shoot “original” Cooper’s Part 17 scene there after wrapping the Double and just didn’t have time? As it stands, the footage in Part 17 is Cooper and Gerard exiting a door, then a frozen POV shot of the motel, then that very dark shot of Cooper and Gerard walking beside a wall that is clearly NOT the Mt. Si Motel (this is the mysterious shot that fascinated so many of us when all we had to analyze was the promos). Then it cuts to Jeffries, and Cooper and Gerard emerging from darkness. We don’t see who opens the door, or how.

Of course, it’s interesting that Lynch even chose that location from FWWM to act as the Dutchman’s. And, to bring things full circle, the Tremond grandson of course pops up there in FWWM...

Yes, quite a place! As a coincidence, Bowie's "1. Outside" album, which is the one where "I'm deranged" comes from, also has a song called "Motel". It is a great concept album, and what also caught my attention there was another song called "Segue - Algeria Touchshriek" which had a particular lyric "I'm thinking of leasing the room above my shop". That whole album is a great listen.
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eyeboogers
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby eyeboogers » Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:42 pm

Diane wrote:The fact that The Fireman says “listen to the sounds” and then Cooper simultaneously hears the same sound in the lodge and in the woods just prior to Laura’s disappearance indicates that The Fireman is at least aware of the disappearance if not behind it. Is the disappearance the reason he must now leave the lodge and assume the identity of Richard?


That is not The Fireman's sound, it is the sound of the arm's dobbleganger, and that is who snatches Laura away in part 17. Yes it is heard on The Fireman's record player, but the sound becomes active whenever the dobbleganger interferes (prominently heard several times in part 2). This is also why The Fireman was meant to warn about the 13th Sycamore.
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Diane
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Diane » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:13 pm

I must have missed the sound in part 2.
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eyeboogers
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby eyeboogers » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:16 am

Diane wrote:I must have missed the sound in part 2.


I caught it only on my re-watch, I "listended to the sounds" :D It is heard in ep 2 when everything becomes all wobbly and distorted in the red room (we see the white horse) and is heard again when the evolution speaks of his dobbleganger, and I believe also when it finally attacks.
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Cappy
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Cappy » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:12 pm

Maybe this is veering away from where the discussion is heading, but I've felt like the junkie mom and her son(?) in Vegas were some sort of updated manifestation of the Tremonds. Besides the obvious pairing of an older woman with a small child, she seems to be shouting backwards, plus they are conveniently present for Cooper's reentry into the world as Dougie.

And going along with the connections between the Tremonds and Sarah Palmer, the card table the junkie mom sits at is littered with the kinds of things Sarah Pkeeps by her couch: booze, ashtray, and pills, although I don't remember if Sarah had prescription meds visible. I've always been interested in the playing cards + clothespin the junkie mom has -- it's reminiscent of that scratched playing card w/ the Judy(?) symbol that Mr. C shows Darya. Like, maybe she drew and scratched on the card that Mr. C carries.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:01 pm

eyeboogers wrote:
Diane wrote:I must have missed the sound in part 2.


I caught it only on my re-watch, I "listended to the sounds" :D It is heard in ep 2 when everything becomes all wobbly and distorted in the red room (we see the white horse) and is heard again when the evolution speaks of his dobbleganger, and I believe also when it finally attacks.


I think I hear it when EotA says “Bob...Bob...Bob” (the “sound” seems to accompany the second and third “Bob”s). That’s the only time I hear it in the Red Roon scenes though (except of course where it precedes Laura getting taken up, paralleling Part 17). I don’t hear it during the scenes relating to EotA’s doppel.

EDIT: Disregard what I said above. It’s NOT the record-skip sound when he says “Bob...Bob...Bob.” My bad!

Cappy wrote:Maybe this is veering away from where the discussion is heading, but I've felt like the junkie mom and her son(?) in Vegas were some sort of updated manifestation of the Tremonds. Besides the obvious pairing of an older woman with a small child, she seems to be shouting backwards, plus they are conveniently present for Cooper's reentry into the world as Dougie.

And going along with the connections between the Tremonds and Sarah Palmer, the card table the junkie mom sits at is littered with the kinds of things Sarah Pkeeps by her couch: booze, ashtray, and pills, although I don't remember if Sarah had prescription meds visible. I've always been interested in the playing cards + clothespin the junkie mom has -- it's reminiscent of that scratched playing card w/ the Judy(?) symbol that Mr. C shows Darya. Like, maybe she drew and scratched on the card that Mr. C carries.


Great observations. Sarah does have prescription meds visible. Not only does “drugged-out mother” have playing cards, she also had a safety pin on the table, which would account for the scratches/pin pricks on the doppel’s “Judy” card.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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eyeboogers
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby eyeboogers » Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:56 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:I think I hear it when EotA says “Bob...Bob...Bob” (the “sound” seems to accompany the second and third “Bob”s). That’s the only time I hear it in the Red Roon scenes though (except of course where it precedes Laura getting taken up, paralleling Part 17). I don’t hear it during the scenes relating to EotA’s doppel.



It is very prominent when the red room goes all wobbly and then cuts to the "my dobbelganger" thing, are you also using the blu ray version as reference?
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:24 pm

eyeboogers wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:I think I hear it when EotA says “Bob...Bob...Bob” (the “sound” seems to accompany the second and third “Bob”s). That’s the only time I hear it in the Red Roon scenes though (except of course where it precedes Laura getting taken up, paralleling Part 17). I don’t hear it during the scenes relating to EotA’s doppel.



It is very prominent when the red room goes all wobbly and then cuts to the "my dobbelganger" thing, are you also using the blu ray version as reference?


Yeah, I’m using the Blu Ray. I hear a pretty dense sound mix there (no surprise from Lynch), but nothing I recognize as the sound from the phonograph.
LateReg
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby LateReg » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:45 pm

boske wrote:We are also missing something here that seems to be floated in front of our faces: "It is in our house now". Yes it is, Tremonds are in the Palmer house. The more I think about, the more it seems is that the opening scene of S3 takes place after Laura disappears while being saved by Cooper. And the color scheme of the scenes seems identical.


Great stuff all around throughout this thread. But some questions:

If the opening scene takes place there, then what does the Fireman's "listen to the sounds" mean in that context? It's already happened, so what would Cooper be listening for at that point?

Also, which two scenes have the similar color schemes? The black and white opening and the color Laura-in-the-woods disappearance? I got a little lost here.

Also, in regards to another of your posts, can we really tell from that globe in Part 8 that Laura's soul is being sent to Texas? I think it's very vague, intentionally so.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:58 pm

LateReg wrote:
Also, in regards to another of your posts, can we really tell from that globe in Part 8 that Laura's soul is being sent to Texas? I think it's very vague, intentionally so.


This is a popular theory that I’ve never fully bought into. The gold globe is just so darn large in comparison to the world map, covering the area of what could be several US states IIRC. It’s certainly possible that it end up in Odessa based on where we last see it positioned, but we don’t see enough of its descent to be sure. I’m not discounting that Lynch meant to plant that seed of an idea in the audience’s head, but I agree with you that he also left it intentionally ambiguous. It’s definitely much closer to Texas than to Washington when we last see it, though.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby LateReg » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:14 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Also, in regards to another of your posts, can we really tell from that globe in Part 8 that Laura's soul is being sent to Texas? I think it's very vague, intentionally so.


This is a popular theory that I’ve never fully bought into. The gold globe is just so darn large in comparison to the world map, covering the area of what could be several US states IIRC. It’s certainly possible that it end up in Odessa based on where we last see it positioned, but we don’t see enough of its descent to be sure. I’m not discounting that Lynch meant to plant that seed of an idea in the audience’s head, but I agree with you that he also left it intentionally ambiguous. It’s definitely much closer to Texas than to Washington when we last see it, though.


I have always thought it was headed to Washington, that it is still on its trajectory, slightly upwards when we last see it. But then you see Part 18, rewatch Part 8, and then things get even more vague, and I'm tempted to say it's heading towards Texas. The thing is - the gold globe is moving in such a way that it's hard to track against the map whether it's moving definitively upwards or downwards in the totality of the framing and camerawork, imo. Sometimes the same phenomenon can be seen in shots taking place in outer space in sci-fi films of a spaceship heading towards its destination. A curve of sorts occurs that is either an optical illusion or just a product of the special effects. I see something similar here.

By the way, I checked on that newspaper in Part 8 in 4K and I believe the paper is simply out of focus in the shot. It can't be determined what articles are in the paper, and I freeze framed, zoomed in and everything. Sorry to come up empty.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:11 pm

LateReg wrote:By the way, I checked on that newspaper in Part 8 in 4K and I believe the paper is simply out of focus in the shot. It can't be determined what articles are in the paper, and I freeze framed, zoomed in and everything. Sorry to come up empty.


Not your fault! Thanks for checking. I’d completely forgotten about it!
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boske
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:03 pm

LateReg wrote:
boske wrote:We are also missing something here that seems to be floated in front of our faces: "It is in our house now". Yes it is, Tremonds are in the Palmer house. The more I think about, the more it seems is that the opening scene of S3 takes place after Laura disappears while being saved by Cooper. And the color scheme of the scenes seems identical.


Great stuff all around throughout this thread. But some questions:

If the opening scene takes place there, then what does the Fireman's "listen to the sounds" mean in that context? It's already happened, so what would Cooper be listening for at that point?

Also, which two scenes have the similar color schemes? The black and white opening and the color Laura-in-the-woods disappearance? I got a little lost here.

Also, in regards to another of your posts, can we really tell from that globe in Part 8 that Laura's soul is being sent to Texas? I think it's very vague, intentionally so.

I simply extrapolated the last part of the trajectory, it just felt like it was going to land in Texas. At one point earlier I had mentioned that Richard and Carrie take a nocturnal trip back to Twin Peaks, an exact opposite of Cooper's and Diane's trip that was done during the daytime until they reached the motel (if my memory still serves me right). So here we have another one of those motifs where two opposite forces or events balance each other.

Interestingly, I was thinking more these past few days about some of the themes discussed here, I am not sure if these have been mentioned before:
  • Jumping Man's stick from FWWM somewhat resembles the Evolution of the Arm in S3;
  • Jeffries gets stuck in the wall in Buenos Aires at an equivalent level/floor or plane where Mr. C. starts disappearing while climbing up the stairs at the Convenience Store, so it would appear that Jeffries failed to achieve at that point what Mr. C. was able to later on (Mr C. may have used some assistance from "woodsmen", he did not go alone).
As far as color scheme, Laura and Cooper scene is black and white until Laura's body disappears from the lake beach, is it not?

The sound itself is strange. I was flipping channels one day last year and ran into a black and white European movie, and heard the exact sound, as it felt to had came from an insect in the field, since the scene showed a field close to a forrest. I then tried to figure out if there is moth sound similar to it and failed. I thought there was a connection to the frog moth from part 8.
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Jasper
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Jasper » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:37 pm

The sound is obviously a wooden percussion frog.

frog = frog-moth



P.S. I'm joking.

P.P.S. At least I think I'm joking....
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boske
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:04 am

Joke or no joke, it sounds like a Bronze Caco (Cacosternum nanum) frog call :shock:


Bronze Caco frog (at 1.03) mark.

Also here, http://www.frogbook.co.za/frog-calls.php, sound 145.

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