Twin Peaks: From Z To A 12/10 & The Television Collection 10/15 Blu-Ray & DVD Sets

Discussion of Twin Peaks TV Series, Fire Walk With Me, and Books

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Jerry Horne
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Jerry Horne » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:42 pm

Wow. That BR Final Cut sure is green. Reminds me of what Criterion has done lately. That Midnight Cowboy was...different.

I talked with Mark Frost on Twitter about a version of S3 cut as a film. He suggested a fish shaped USB. I think it's the only way it would fit on physical media?
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Rainwater » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:06 pm

It's a bit of an unfortunate trend with BluRays.

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It's a shame there isn't some sort of option for credit-less viewing for S3, to smoothly transition between parts as if they were edited together. Lynch doesn't actually seem to want the final product to be watched as a film, despite everything. I don't think he's ever commented on this topic, has he?

Edit: I don't mean to suggest I'd want it without the musical performances though, or anything heretical, just the titles themselves. The musical bits feel too integral to the whole experience now. But I guess that also might kinda answer how Lynch himself views it, the performances do give definite, episode-like closure to each part, and also kill the chance for seamless transition to the next part. Oh well.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:29 pm

I mean, it used to be fairly common for long movies to have intermissions. Music would play during the intermission, and home video releases generally treat that as a part of the film. I view the TP musical sequences as being similar: they can be seen as bookends of episodes (which they surely are), but alternately can be viewed as little intermissions throughout the movie.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Rainwater » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:43 pm

Yeah, but they're a little frequent. Doesn't that mess with the flow in some way? I don't really know how it feels, I haven't done a "full watch", I really want to, though.
Anyway, it definitely would be nice to be able to remove the beginning and end credits from all parts, except the very opening and closing, of course.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Cappy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:39 am

I'm not opposed to a theatrical cut of Season 3, but it sounds almost impossible to watch the entire thing in one 18 hour sitting. I could do maybe 5 or 6 hours at once, but even that would be pushing it. Not saying I don't love Season 3 or anything, it's just that I can only binge watch something so much before my aesthetic or artistic appreciation fades, and my brain starts to derive nothing more than a weird kind of OCD glee from an act performed repetitively... I think the last time I binged something it was Orange is the New Black Season 4 over a weekend. But given the particular content of that season, ( :( :( :( ) I was just emotionally drained for a few days afterward.

I'd be open to maybe dividing S3 up into 6 three hour chunks though, or something. It's funny, I've actually thought a lot about dividing up FWWM + The Missing Pieces into 4 episodes, as a way of integrating The Missing Pieces with the original film. If I remember, the episodes would break down into:

Episode 1: Teresa Banks/Deer Meadow (1988?). Begins with Teresa screaming and her body floating, concludes with the Philip Jeffries/Buenos Aries/Agent Cooper in Deer Meadow stuff. Credits roll over the view from inside Agent Desmond's car, reverse view of "Let's Rock".
Episode 2: Twin Peaks (1989). Begins with Laura Palmer walking to school. Ends with her waking up from her dream and removing the picture from the wall. Credits roll over Ms. Tremond's picture.
Episode 3: Begins maybe with Leo showing Shelly how to clean the floor? Ends with Laura and Bobby's botched drug deal. Credits roll over Laura giggling over the dead cop's body.
Episode 4: Begins with Bobby and Laura discussing the previous night at school, with Laura still teasing him about killing Mike. Ends the same as FWWM, with same credits sequence.

I've tried watching FWWM + Missing Pieces scenes together in chunks that would fit into this episode structure, and it had a similar feel to Season 3's more incongruous eps. It's a lot of the main Laura Palmer storyline constantly broken up by tangential stuff with the townspeople. I definitely see why Lynch cut a lot of that stuff from the theatrical cut, but part of me is always curious to see how Pete and Nadine and Andy fit into Laura's final days. I tried the extended fan edit of FWWM too, but at almost 4 hours, it didn't hold together for me.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:05 am

There are also Roadhouse numbers that are just inserted in the middle of Parts, like NIN or “Green Onions”/sweeping. If you were watching the whole thing straight through, you wouldn’t know the difference between the ones that were credit scenes and the ones that weren’t. In that sense, I think they could work as just part of the weird ebb and flow of the thing. I wouldn’t want them to be removed, even if they do end up making it feel a little episodic. Notably, Lynch left the Cactus Blossoms performance in the middle of the combined P3/4 sans credits.

For me, I think the most jarring thing would be the random cutaway to Dougie and Sonny Jim playing catch, during the time when he’s supposed to be out with the Mitchums. It’s ok in an episodic structure, but I think viewed as a continuous movie, that would be pretty jarring.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby LateReg » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:12 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:There are also Roadhouse numbers that are just inserted in the middle of Parts, like NIN or “Green Onions”/sweeping. If you were watching the whole thing straight through, you wouldn’t know the difference between the ones that were credit scenes and the ones that weren’t. In that sense, I think they could work as just part of the weird ebb and flow of the thing. I wouldn’t want them to be removed, even if they do end up making it feel a little episodic. Notably, Lynch left the Cactus Blossoms performance in the middle of the combined P3/4 sans credits.


This is what I came here to say. There are Roadhouse sequences in the middle of episodes nearly as often as there are at the end of episodes,* and I personally like how the sequences contribute to the ebb and flow when watched in a single sitting. (I'm one of the crazies who has thus far watched this twice as an 18-hour film, and I think it flows absolutely incredibly.) Although it seems counterintuitive and almost unprecedented in narrative cinema, there is no rule that states a musical performance can't just be dropped into a film willy nilly or in the name of mood, regardless of its concrete connection to the plot. And especially in something as rambling and free form as The Return, the sequences would still make sense.

That said, I believe that The Return is unclassifiable, and functions as both TV and Film at the same time. So, those musical sequences that occur during the middle of the episodes both contribute to the ebb and flow of the film as well as serve to play with the format of episodic TV, in essence keeping the audience on their toes with fake-outs as it overturns expectations that the series was establishing weekly. For at least the first half of The Return, every time you think you have it pinned down, it knowingly breaks the formula it was establishing. And while I'd love a cut with the credits removed, the credits are a big part of the fun (figuring out who Richard Horne is) and gravitas (all those who have passed away). In a way, you can think of the credits as actual text within the film.

As far as Dougie playing catch, that's very interesting, but perhaps not a deal breaker. In Parts 10 thru 13, what was once almost uniformly linear and not at all episodic (those first 8 - 9 parts are 100% a non-episodic, effortlessly flowing film) starts to become jumbled, either because those Parts are structured not around narrative momentum but around thematic coherence within the hour, and/or because we are seeing time starting to slip off its axis. Either way, it felt very unorthodox even in episode format and contributed to the sense that something was definitely off relating to time. I think it could still work that way in film form. The question in all of this is whether/how differently Lynch would have edited it had he been given the chance to premiere this in, say, two 9-hour chunks rather than in 18 increments.

*Huge pet peeve of mine while reading articles across the internet (not here), whether just generally speaking or engaging in pointless debates arguing against the notion that this is a film: When people state that EVERY, or even nearly every, episode ends with a musical number. It's simply not true and drives me nuts, and I wonder at what point they started to misremember this as a fact. For one thing, it's not only false, it also disregards the fact that there are also musical sequences in the middle of certain episodes. And in the TV/Film debate, it's also used as a crutch to claim that the Parts are episodic - ALWAYS ending at the roadhouse - without taking into consideration that if the musical numbers didn't exist, the same songs could have simply been played over end credits simply because there had to be end credits since it was aired on TV. At the very least, in that very basic regard, they can be thought of as a more ambitious version of the end credits that accompany almost every HBO series since Sopranos.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby mtwentz » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:30 pm

To me, the opening credits were pretty important. They kept Laura present in our minds and reminded us that Leland had told Coop to 'Find Laura'.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Soolsma » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:31 pm

Rainwater wrote:It's a bit of an unfortunate trend with BluRays.


I believe the consensus on the greenish Fellowship is that it's a mistake. As it's only on the blu-ray of the Fellowship extended version, not on the theatrical edition, nor the other parts.

I guess we won't ever have to worry about them fiddling with TP's hue on future releases. I find it highly unlikely Lynch would ever put his stamp on that. Unless, of course, a mistake would be made. Didn't the Entire Mystery's FWWM have awful audio issues?
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby LateReg » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:34 pm

Soolsma wrote:
Rainwater wrote:It's a bit of an unfortunate trend with BluRays.


I believe the consensus on the greenish Fellowship is that it's a mistake. As it's only on the blu-ray of the Fellowship extended version, not on the theatrical edition, nor the other parts.

I guess we won't ever have to worry about them fiddling with TP's hue on future releases. I find it highly unlikely Lynch would ever put his stamp on that. Unless, of course, a mistake would be made. Didn't the Entire Mystery's FWWM have awful audio issues?


I'm not an expert, but I own a lot of movies. And what you describe regarding Fellowship seems accurate.

In general, I don't believe the problem lies specifically with Blu-rays, but with how the films are transferred (for the Blu-ray release, in some cases, but it's still a fault of the transfer, not the Blu-ray). It's a fact that a lot of theatrical releases, for a time in the 2000s, at least, were veering toward blue/green (The Bourne films, The Matrix, etc.). When new transfers and color grading were done for older films, for whatever reason some creators opted for cooler tones. If we are talking about Blade Runner, that's what Ridley Scott did. The film doesn't appear overly green in motion, but a few screen caps will certainly reveal how much greener it is than the older DVD transfers. But, the Blu-ray transfer of The Final Cut, which was probably remastered for a theatrical re-release back in 2007 (a long time ago!), and especially the newest 4K UHD Blu-ray, which is absolutely stunning, have far superior video quality than any previous releases of the film. Yes, the image veers cooler and in some cases greener, but it is Ridley Scott himself who wanted it that way, and that particular look of the film has lasted for over 10 years now and was more recently gone over with a fine-toothed comb for the 4K UHD release (which would feature certain color enhancements for HDR, also meant to get one closer to the vibrancy and accuracy of the colors on the film negative as the director intended). Also, it should be noted that the main goal of Blu-ray/UHD is represent the transfer as closely as possible. Not to manipulate or smooth or whatever else, but to represent as closely as possible the director's vision. Occasionally, that can go wrong, but 95% of the time Blu-ray provides the best and most accurate presentation. Screenshot comparisons aren't necessarily misleading, but the fact is that it is a regulation that all new transfers must be supervised/approved by the director, and Scott was instrumental in getting Blade Runner to look exactly how he wanted it to. This of course ties back into the central conversation about revisionism and intent, but when you see Blade Runner in motion on UHD I can promise you you'll have no complaints over the image.

I believe it was one episode early on in the second season that had an audio sync issue in The Entire Mystery box, and then at least one scene in The Missing Pieces. FWWM was just fine. In both cases, the audio sync could be fixed by turning off some setting on either the TV or Blu-ray player (I can't remember which), and some folks never even experienced the issues and thus never even believed there were any. I'm very sensitive to such issues, and they were glaringly present on my discs. Changing the setting fixed the episode (I remember it was partially during the smoked cheese pig conversation as well as a couple other scenes within that episode), but not the issue in The Missing Pieces (Pete's 2x4 speech). I actually highly doubt that this new set contain a re-authored disc that will fix the issues with that episode.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Jasper » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:48 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:I talked with Mark Frost on Twitter about a version of S3 cut as a film. He suggested a fish shaped USB. I think it's the only way it would fit on physical media?


That's a great idea, and it gives me a lot of additional ideas. :lol:

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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Jasper » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:54 pm

Missed one.

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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Jasper » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:12 pm

Holy smokes, I don't know why this didn't occur to me before. The USB should be a figure of Coop standing straight with his arms by his sides. You pull the top half off (separating at about the waist), then plug this in...

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(The image is lightened up a little bit for clarity.)
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Soolsma » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:47 am

:lol: And it only works at 2:53
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Jerry Horne » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:13 am

Jasper - brilliant.

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