Twin Peaks: From Z To A 12/10 & The Television Collection 10/15 Blu-Ray & DVD Sets

Discussion of Twin Peaks TV Series, Fire Walk With Me, and Books

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Rainwater
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Rainwater » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:19 am

Honestly, I've never understood the appeal of audio commentary. Especially on a Lynch film. But, to each their own, I guess.
Behind-the-scenes footage, on the other hand, I'll take all I can get. I could watch Lynch working on set for days and not get bored. It's as educational as it is inspiring. Though I'd much prefer the footage without an obnoxious Herzog impersonation spliced into it for no discernible reason.

Cappy wrote:I still think a Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee-style convo with Lynch and Frost discussing their collaborative process over pie and coffee would be amazing.

That could be great.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby mtwentz » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:37 am

Rainwater wrote:Honestly, I've never understood the appeal of audio commentary. Especially on a Lynch film. But, to each their own, I guess.
That could be great.


Off topic a little, but I also don't understand the appeal of having multiple cuts of the same film. I am glad Lynch has never felt the need to release extended cuts/director cuts (well, I guess Dune has multiple cuts, but not with the approval of Lynch).

Of course, a big part of that is Lynch's insistence on creative control since Blue Velvet.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:53 am

bosguy1981 wrote: If that footage of Ben killing Maddy ever did get found, I'm like 1000% sure a collector or crew member would have leaked it by now. That's sort of the holy grail of Twin Peaks lost footage and Lynch would neeeever authorize its release (hell, he'd probably order its immediate destruction). Pray for a lost-and-found-and-leak situation!


I think Lynch would be fine with releasing it. He’s been exceptionally generous with releasing deleted/alternate footage, bloopers, etc. I just think it probably doesn’t exist anymore, like the majority of the excised footage from the show (and 1990s television overall).

I like audio commentaries. I enjoy hearing filmmakers react to the work in real time. There’s something very conversational about it. However, Lynch has so emphasized his hatred of the format that the concept of an audio commentary on anything he has directed feels unholy. The S1 commentary tracks are great, though.

I also hate alternate cuts, because inevitably, no matter what version of the film you watch, you’re missing something. It drives my OCD self crazy. I appreciate that for Lynch, once the film is out in the world, it is what it is. I dislike the fact that he even allowed minor corrections like the digital removal of boom mikes on the original TP series, but at least that’s a very small thing compared to the revisions that Star Wars, Blade Runner, etc. have pulled in their “special editions.”
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Rainwater » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 am

Yeah, basically Lynch doesn't need to recut anything because he already made exactly what he wanted to make, and it's complete.

Re: Blade Runner, Ridley Scott did not originally have anything like full creative control, AFAIK. And the so-called Director's Cut is that in name only. I do think the Final Cut is the best and definitive version of the film. I'm sure there are people who disagree, like with anything, but it is, at least, the closest to the director's vision. According to the director.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby LateReg » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:08 am

Rainwater wrote:Yeah, basically Lynch doesn't need to recut anything because he already made exactly what he wanted to make, and it's complete.

Re: Blade Runner, Ridley Scott did not originally have anything like full creative control, AFAIK. And the so-called Director's Cut is that in name only. I do think the Final Cut is the best and definitive version of the film. I'm sure there are people who disagree, like with anything, but it is, at least, the closest to the director's vision. According to the director.


That's correct, and I don't think anyone could disagree. The Final Cut is the best, and the most complete. BUT, there are some out there who actually prefer the original, voiceover-heavy theatrical cut. That's very odd to me, but in a fascinating way.

Apocalypse Now final cut is releasing on 4k/Blu-ray later in the month, and I couldn't be more excited about it. The sound mix has been fully realized, and it bridges the gap between the theatrical and the Redux. I look forward to it potentially being the best cut of the film.

The Wicker Man is the most interesting one in the ways that give Reindeer OCD. A few different cuts of the film exist, and there's something a little different in each of them, and the preferred final cut, the latest release which was unearthed from one of its original, pre-release screenings, is SHORTER by 7 minutes than the longer cut of the film that was released years ago on DVD. No attempt was made to splice additional footage into the unearthed cut because Hardy simply prefers the way he cut that one back in the 70s, and so it is the only one that has been properly remastered.

Actually, the most interesting one, by far, is Wong Kar-wai's The Grandmaster, released in a Chinese cut at 130 minutes, an International cut at 122 minutes, and the US cut at 108 minutes. Each was targeted at different markets/audiences, and he took each version as a challenge to himself. Therefore each cut serves a different purpose - some more focused on atmosphere, some on the love story, some on the history, some focused on educating an audience - but each is a director's cut. There is connective tissue, including important character moments, left out of each version so that the only way to see The Grandmaster is to watch all three cuts, essentially having all three in your head when watching any version. And there's plenty of footage left on the cutting room floor, as well. I've been holding out for a definitive cut of that film as I think, more than almost any, it begs for one and would be a revelation.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:30 am

It’s certainly fair to say that some films where the directors were initially unable to fully realize their vision merit, even demand, director’s cuts, and Blade Runner and Apocalypse Now are two examples. I agree that the recut versions of both films surpass the theatrical cuts. Dune would be another ideal candidate, and the only Lynch movie I would want him to recut. I think those films are the exception, though, and most director’s cuts feel like unnecessary cash-ins or double-dips, where the extra material could have just been included as deleted scenes.

When I mentioned Blade Runner’s revisionism, I was actually thinking not about the deleted narration, the unicorn shot, etc. All those changes improve the film, and I also appreciate that Scott (unlike, say, Lucas or Spielberg) has kept the theatrical release available so that the film can be seen in its flawed but historically valuable original form. In retrospect, BR was a terrible example for my point. But the reason I brought it up was the digital trickery that was used to alter/“improve” Joanna Cassidy’s death scene. I dislike that type of digital revisionism, although I certainly understand why Scott had the desire to “fix” that scene, and as I said, I appreciate him keeping the original available.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby LateReg » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:16 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:It’s certainly fair to say that some films where the directors were initially unable to fully realize their vision merit, even demand, director’s cuts, and Blade Runner and Apocalypse Now are two examples. I agree that the recut versions of both films surpass the theatrical cuts. Dune would be another ideal candidate, and the only Lynch movie I would want him to recut. I think those films are the exception, though, and most director’s cuts feel like unnecessary cash-ins or double-dips, where the extra material could have just been included as deleted scenes.

When I mentioned Blade Runner’s revisionism, I was actually thinking not about the deleted narration, the unicorn shot, etc. All those changes improve the film, and I also appreciate that Scott (unlike, say, Lucas or Spielberg) has kept the theatrical release available so that the film can be seen in its flawed but historically valuable original form. In retrospect, BR was a terrible example for my point. But the reason I brought it up was the digital trickery that was used to alter/“improve” Joanna Cassidy’s death scene. I dislike that type of digital revisionism, although I certainly understand why Scott had the desire to “fix” that scene, and as I said, I appreciate him keeping the original available.


I'm very interested to see the Final Cut of Apocalypse Now. I believe most people still prefer the theatrical to the Redux, and I wouldn't argue with that. I'm not 100% up on Coppola's satisfaction with the Cannes (eventual theatrical) cut of Apocalypse Now, as the one thing I've heard repeatedly is about wanting the film to end without credits, which it has for years on home video. So while excited for this new cut, and while aware of all the madness that went into making the film, I'm not entirely aware of why he didn't just make this version of the film back when the Redux was released, nor that he was ever unhappy with the theatrical cut other than the addition of end credits that he never wanted.

The digital trickery you bring up during that death in Blade Runner is very interesting, and I have to say I wasn't fully cognizant of that fact. Everything about the Final Cut is superior to every previous cut, and you don't see the seams of any alterations, but actually altering a scene as you describe is certainly ripe for debate. In principal, I'm on your side on that one, for sure.

For what it's worth, unless I'm missing something, I don't think that Spielberg is in the same camp as Lucas. He was during the ET debacle (removing guns from scenes) but eventually admitted his mistake in that regard and now the only version available is the original, unaltered theatrical cut. Close Encounters has all three versions available and remastered. Is there something I'm missing?
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:13 pm

LateReg wrote:Everything about the Final Cut is superior to every previous cut, and you don't see the seams of any alterations, but actually altering a scene as you describe is certainly ripe for debate. In principal, I'm on your side on that one, for sure.

It's all green though.

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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Jerry Horne » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:18 pm

Let's get back on topic please.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Jerry Horne » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:19 pm

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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Rainwater » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:32 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:Let's get back on topic please.

Sorry, but is there really a point in keeping to strict moderation on a practically dead forum? There's barely any activity as is. Off-topic discussion is better than no discussion, I would think. And there's not a whole lot of any kind of discussion, these days.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Jerry Horne » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:03 pm

How does everyone else feel? Off topic conversation good? Or keep it on topic? This board is for you guys, I just want to keep y'all happy.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Rainwater » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:21 pm

I just hope this forum doesn't go completely, any time soon. I'm not the most active poster, but I have to say, I love this place. There's been so much good content and discussion here, and especially leading up to The Return, it was something really special. Sharing in the growing excitement and anticipation with everyone here was a lot of fun. I'm sure much of it was owed to good moderation in more active days, and thank you for that.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:29 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:How does everyone else feel? Off topic conversation good? Or keep it on topic? This board is for you guys, I just want to keep y'all happy.


You’re aces, Jerry.

We’re only here through the good graces of you and Dugpa and BookhouseBoyBob, etc. As long as the doors are open, I’m just happy to be here, and to abide by management’s rules. But since you asked, clearly I enjoy discussing film in general with LateReg and others who are on here, and I’m always happy letting the conversation wander where it may, particularly when there’s not much chatter overall. Ideally, these conversations should go on the Hap’s Diner forum, but even less people seem to be checking for new posts there than on this board. Even the other Lynch boards seem unfortunately dormant (there was almost no response when Freddie Jones passed, and I wonder if people are even aware that he did).

Long way of saying, I vote for a slightly looser approach, but it’s your saloon.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Complete Television Collection (Paramount) 10/15/19

Postby Jerry Horne » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:38 pm

Looser it is.

I'll keep updating the first post in this thread with any pre-order links I find and any info about potential extras. Although at $72.99 I would be surprised at any sort of super box. We'll see.

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