POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Discussion of Twin Peaks TV Series, Fire Walk With Me, and Books

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Which Twin Peaks do you prefer?

Old Peaks (Original run + FWWM)
New Peaks (2017)
Total votes: 104
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Wonderful & Strange
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:47 pm

FWWM should either be its own separate choice or grouped with The Return, which it resembles much more than the original show.

The old show is cute, but way too heavy on soap opera. And today just feels very much like a traditional TV show. And if people are being objective, the acting on the old show was often very bad, even regularly so. And not with purpose, as we find on The Return.

The new show (and FWWM) is a fully realized, mature vision of Twin Peaks, and it's breaking ground the average viewer didn't even realize existed. Cute quirkiness is a cliche that's it's leapt over on its way to exploring existence, deconstructing social reality, identity, and every narrative assumption. Even while being estranging and new, it still manages to make us care about humanity, despite our fallen nature.
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby Jatriot » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:40 am

No. I was opposed to the question as Twin Peaks:The Return or Event is not even half over ( plus David, Mark and Kyle are all on record that they would like to "continue exploring The TP Verse so more seasons highly in play) but then you throw in the distinctly on it's own as much ( if not more Re format) TP-FWWM than TP The Event. To many variables, moving parts etc. Love your passion for DL & Company tho. Just mitigate this somewhat and resubmit Sep10th @ the earliest.
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby sylvia_north » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:40 am

Each increases the enjoyment of the other. Season 2 now has an added dimension. Each have been carefully crafted narrative experiments to keep audiences talking and excited between episodes.

Old peaks got away with murder in spite of constraints, and all of tv cannibalized the things that made it great- so much so that many new viewers don't understand what the fuss was about. It ultimately failed and lost a lot of viewers along the way. It was a group effort, and there was a magic to the silliness. It was a success as far as instant and lasting cult magic.

And there's magic to the silliness this time around- and the cult has only grown in strength and numbers. Everyone can handle what's being dished out and is prepared and drooling to see the weirdness doubled down.

I can't say Return so far has "beat" season 2. There are large parts I'm skipping over on re-watches but will take those parts over any other show on tv in 25 years. No comparing! The book and the audiobook diary release were an excellent bridge, along with those missing pieces. It was like a theme park ride before and it still is.
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby Aerozhul » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:27 pm

I'm not gonna vote yet either, but interestingly enough, I caught a few bits and pieces of the old show during a marathon on one of the Showtime channels today and I found it somewhat hard to watch. This sounds blasphemous, but it just seems kind of old hat now. I figure this is just a temporary feeling.

As frustrating as the new show is to watch at times, it's still so fascinating and the straight-forwardness of the old show is sort of off-putting in comparison.
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David Locke
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby David Locke » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:45 am

I have to say I'm astonished that the majority prefer TP:TR, especially considering that's pitting 8 hours up against around 30 hours of the original series and film.

The original series doesn't seemed dated or to have aged poorly at all to me. I admit being a bit taken aback by the melodrama and soapiness when I first encountered it at age 18, and even when I finally watched it and found a lot to love I still considered the whole thing heavily flawed.

Somehow, though, in the past few years I've been appreciating the original series (and FWWM, my favorite Lynch creation) more and more, even appreciating and loving some of those "weak episodes." In fact I think that the way Season 2 plummets a bit and then rises back upward is really fascinating and in a way makes the series stronger, the highs higher... it's hard to think of another show that had such an amazing comeback. I mean, episodes 23-27 alone are exciting after 17-22, but then (forgetting the flawed 28 for a moment) we get Lynch's finale which just is in another stratosphere.

It's like on every re-watch I like it all a bit more, or see new things, with my opinions of certain episodes going slightly up or down in ways I didn't expect (e.g. I used to argue for Episode 3 as underrated/a S1 standout, but on recent viewings I see it as easily the least successful of S1 besides the finale, if still great; or I used to think Episode 15 was up there in the higher tier of Peaks whereas on last viewing I was surprised by how much uninteresting and farcical stuff it spends time on, with Leland/BOB material not being enough to save it; or, I've come to really love a lot about Episode 23 which I think is where the show came back to life, etc.)

In short, I find re-watching the original 90s TP stuff a joy. I never get tired of it. It's so beautifully shot, warm, inviting yet disturbing and ominous (this balance is key), and its characters are so ingrained in my head and likable or at least interesting... plus the music and the setting combines to make a truly unparalleled experience in TV, in terms of sheer world-building (and even with mostly studio sets!) It's a miracle. It's more than a show, it's a world to get lost in.

And then FWWM adds on the more unpleasant and necessary correctives to that beautiful seeming world. And it still feels of a piece with the series despite being so much darker. I mean, Deer Meadow's opening scenes are somehow very much like watching an alternate universe Peaks, the aesthetic and feel/mood and everything is very similar despite being different... yet TP:TR I don't think resembles the original much at all in feel or style.

It's a very cold Return, and by design I'm sure, but - besides 8 episodes of 18 being too soon to tell - I just can't see myself going back and back to these episodes the way I do consistently to the original and to FWWM. I prefer the more organic (film instead of digital helps), warmly-lit, tonally varied (basically every genre, made it so unpredictable), truly weird (as opposed to a kind of gratuitous weirdness where weirdness is always expected and thus loses its punch), Romantic/humanist/compassionate feel of the 90s TP.

TP:TR Part 8 was a masterpiece, but it's still "far away" from what the 90s stuff was aiming for - I loved it, but I won't be happy if some of the Laura mythos is really followed up on as it seems to be suggested. I loved Carnivale, but TP does not need to style itself as some kind of giant war of Good and Evil gods or avatars or whatever. We'll see.
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby tresojos » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:58 pm

old obviously bc theres donna
donna madonna mañana fofana osama bin laden hayward
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David Locke
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby David Locke » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:23 am

tresojos wrote:old obviously bc theres donna

I do have to say that, in an odd way, Donna never looked better to me than in the scene of your avatar, wearing that green sports jersey :oops:

And then Moira Kelly gave us a Donna that was even better in many ways for FWWM. So we not only get Donna, we get two Donna's!

But really, I never understood the kind of low-level distaste for her character. I thought LFB was especially great during the Harold plot (which I love), really great work. I even don't mind the "who's Donna's daddy?" plotline near the end, it's never bothered me and LFB is suitably histrionic in the final scene ('YOU'RE MY DADDY, YOU'RE MY DADDYYY!")
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby Agent Earle » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:28 am

As far as I'm concerned, TP: TR can go hide in a corner when TP: 1990-91 enters the room. Great post regarding the merit of the old Peaks, David - it's a gift that keeps on giving. I also share the belief that S 2, which I adore beyond my ability to properly express, is ultimately better because of that mid-season glitch, as weird as that sounds.
As to the general attitude towards Donna's (make that Lara's) character, I'm guessing a lot of hate towards her accumulated over the years on account of fans learning about her behind-the-camera machinations that got the blame for showrunners axing the Cooper-Audrey romance that would, in minds of most fans, made the show survive - I don't see that alone having enough power to achieve the survival and I have no qualms with Donna myself, although I do believe the way LFB and, by extension, MacLachlan meddled in things that weren't theirs to meddle in (such as plot progression) was uncalled for and very unprofessional. MacLachan's tight-lippeddness in that regard in the years since probably means he's not proud of it either - I bet he cringes whenever someone mentions LFB to him :)
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby Saela » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:22 am

Can't say. Episode 14 is still my favourite episode of tv ever and FWWM my favourite film (even saw it on the big screen recently, which was an experience I'll never forget), but the return is incredible so far and with 10 more episodes to go, everything's possible.
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N. Needleman
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby N. Needleman » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:18 pm

I won't choose. It's all one to me. And IMO each feeds the other perfectly so far.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby IcedOver » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:04 pm

It's still the old. I'm not overly thrilled by this new show, and doubt it will get better enough to be "superior" to the original just in a generic qualitative sense. If I had watched the original for the first time as an adult, I probably wouldn't have the sentimental associations I have with it having watched it at age 13 through 15. Of course the original show has a lot of problems, which I rediscovered when re-watching it on BD before this new show (many episodes not viewed since 1991). Several episodes (16 through 24 in particular) aren't very good. The Lynch episodes are the best of the show, and are really the tentpoles. The pilot and episodes 8 and 14 are some of the best work ever in a drama series. Just comparing Lynch's work on both, this current is vastly inferior in almost every way. It's difficult to compare the two because they are so different, but I can't argue with my reaction that it's worse.
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby Cipher » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:31 pm

I want to nuance my earlier answer somewhat, especially with recent rewatches of both Peaks and other Lynch films. I feel the original run, much as I love and am entertained by it, is elevated massively as a piece of art by Fire Walk With Me and The Return, especially by way of episodes 6 and 8 (and who knows what others to come). They take the world set up by the first two seasons and mine it for emotional resonance.

Seasons one and two episodes make me laugh, they're hypnotic, they make me feel moments of uncanny dread and say, "Wow, cool." As a piece of entertainment, those are all worth quite a bit. But Fire Walk With Me and The Return rearrange their elements in a way that makes me cry. It's all one big whole, but I feel its strongest moments occur after season two.

Of course that still doesn't land me on one side or the other for the poll.
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby Mr. Jackpots » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:00 pm

I am all about the new Twin Peaks. I know the journey isn't over yet. And already the ride has been mind blowingly good.
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby Soolsma » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:37 am

David Locke wrote:I loved it, but I won't be happy if some of the Laura mythos is really followed up on as it seems to be suggested. I loved Carnivale, but TP does not need to style itself as some kind of giant war of Good and Evil gods or avatars or whatever. We'll see.

Spoiler-ish part 8:
I was actually quite amazed how after part 8 many people immediately started assigning messianic properties to Laura. What I mostly took out of those scenes was that her spirit has a deeper origin and a larger role to play than what was simply a girl at the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't feel at all like Lynch and Frost are trying to portray the archetypal avatars of good and evil there, as that would feel disproportionate to the established mythos; the lodges already being a very old legend, the presence of spirits seemingly as old as time itself.

When it comes to this story though, Laura is and always has been the beating heart of Twin Peaks. I'm very glad that they are expanding upon her character/spirit and I couldn't have imagined anyone else's face appear in that golden egg.
Carrie Page: "It's a long way... In those days, I was too young to know any better."
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Re: POLL: Old Peaks or new Peaks?

Postby BOB1 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:48 am

SpookyDollhouse wrote:Why not both?

Heellloooo - if you choose both, what's the fun in choosing? ;)
I mean - some people just don't like choosing, rating, listing etc. so that's fine. But I imagine if one starts a thread like this and posts a question like this, it is because this person likes tough choices. And if you answer "both" or "I don't know", it's no fun at all! :)

For myself - to be on the honest side I couldn't answer yet because the new show is far from end. But as a former Jedi master I should trust my feelings and say that very obviously I am for the old one. Even taking under consideration the age factor (younger people are more excitable, aren't they?) The Return has not come close to the level of excitement/ looking forward to next week/ feeling a MUST to discuss new episodes with fellow fans... that I used to feel with the old Peaks. What am I saying? It has not even come far to this level! It's just in another galaxy!
In fact, it has not come close to the level of excitement I feel now when I watch the old Peaks, after 25 years and xx viewings.

So obviously, it's possible that the second half of Return will blast me and make me revaluate all that I have seen so far.
But is it going to be this way? I doubt though let's see!

Wonderful & Strange wrote:FWWM should either be its own separate choice or grouped with The Return, which it resembles much more than the original show.

Totally disagreed.
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