Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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mtwentz
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby mtwentz » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:02 pm

Rainwater wrote:How can a writer or director owe anyone anything? I'm really struggling with the concept here, someone help me out please.
An artist does what he/she wants. Actors with the proper amount of humility acknowledge their role as colors at a painter's disposal. I can't see how they can possibly be owed anything by someone who created a world and gave them a role out of thin air in the first place.


I didn't see anything in the most recent Tweets by Fenn stating she was owed anything.

In fact, it's really hard to have this discussion without knowing exactly to what Fenn is referring.

But as a general guide, I don't think anything in her most recent Tweets are things most of us would disagree with: 1) it wouldn't be a true TP renion without Audrey and 2) Women deserve the equal of men.

Thus, I would not immediately jump to the conclusion that Sherilyn does not have a valid concern. I think we need to know more about the situation. Hopefully the 'more' is about a new season or a movie.
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mtwentz
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby mtwentz » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:13 pm

Audrey Horne wrote: Hell, I’m still shocked that Lynch and Frost would not want to have Piper Laurie back. I’m like guys, you have Laurie, Beymer and Fenn at your disposal, three dynamite actors that make your world so damn good.


That really is a head scratcher. And I don't buy that they just didn't have a place for her in the script. they shoehorned Gary Hershberger in for a cameo as well as Alicia Witt for two scenes with almost no dialogue.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:28 pm

mtwentz wrote:
Audrey Horne wrote: Hell, I’m still shocked that Lynch and Frost would not want to have Piper Laurie back. I’m like guys, you have Laurie, Beymer and Fenn at your disposal, three dynamite actors that make your world so damn good.


That really is a head scratcher. And I don't buy that they just didn't have a place for her in the script. they shoehorned Gary Hershberger in for a cameo as well as Alicia Witt for two scenes with almost no dialogue.


I think there are a few different versions of what went on with Piper floating around in the ether. Piper claims she wasn’t asked; a member of this board with otherwise very reliable intel says she was asked and declined. I honestly believe every regular from the original show was asked back except for Joan Chen, Eric DaRe and Kenneth Welsh, whose characters are deceased. Some (Ontkean, LFB, Laurie) declined for whatever their reasons, whether it was health, the size of the part, pay, etc.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Cappy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:45 pm

mtwentz wrote:That really is a head scratcher. And I don't buy that they just didn't have a place for her in the script. they shoehorned Gary Hershberger in for a cameo as well as Alicia Witt for two scenes with almost no dialogue.


Agreed... But out of all the characters from the original series, Catherine Martell was probably the most a product of her time, her time being the time of Dynasty, Dallas, Falcon Crest, etc. You could say that Ben Horne was also a scheming head of industry in the same vein as J.R. Ewing, but his eccentricities and boyish love for life transformed him into something more. I love Catherine, and Piper delivers awesome performances even when the writers run out of stuff for her to do, but she never really grows beyond that 80's archetype of a ruthless boss who stops at nothing to get $$$.

In a way I can see why Frost/Lynch might want to abandon the character. Having her in the new season might have gone too against the grain of their 'new' direction.

I don't know where she would have fit into the story if they had included her -- unhappily married to Ben Horne? Destitute shut in? Without Pete or Josie or Andrew or the Ghostwood development project, what does her character have left?

The only thing I can think of is perhaps she could've been slotted into the role of the "Mr. Jackpots" woman from the casino. Maybe she bottomed out in recent years, then Dougie helped her hit the jackpot? I really wish Lynch/Frost could have found something for Piper Laurie to do, but I don't really know what would be left for the character at this point.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:53 pm

Cappy wrote:
mtwentz wrote:That really is a head scratcher. And I don't buy that they just didn't have a place for her in the script. they shoehorned Gary Hershberger in for a cameo as well as Alicia Witt for two scenes with almost no dialogue.


Agreed... But out of all the characters from the original series, Catherine Martell was probably the most a product of her time, her time being the time of Dynasty, Dallas, Falcon Crest, etc. You could say that Ben Horne was also a scheming head of industry in the same vein as J.R. Ewing, but his eccentricities and boyish love for life transformed him into something more. I love Catherine, and Piper delivers awesome performances even when the writers run out of stuff for her to do, but she never really grows beyond that 80's archetype of a ruthless boss who stops at nothing to get $$$.

In a way I can see why Frost/Lynch might want to abandon the character. Having her in the new season might have gone too against the grain of their 'new' direction.

I don't know where she would have fit into the story if they had included her -- unhappily married to Ben Horne? Destitute shut in? Without Pete or Josie or Andrew or the Ghostwood development project, what does her character have left?

The only thing I can think of is perhaps she could've been slotted into the role of the "Mr. Jackpots" woman from the casino. Maybe she bottomed out in recent years, then Dougie helped her hit the jackpot? I really wish Lynch/Frost could have found something for Piper Laurie to do, but I don't really know what would be left for the character at this point.


They could have done literally anything with her. Ben’s story in TP:TR, and Audrey’s, and Jerry’s, were completely unpredictable. I do believe something was written for Catherine, and I wish I could read it. I do feel that addressing the shutdown of the Mill, and the state of American industry in this particular political moment, is something Frost might have done wonders with. It’s sort of a shame how the Mill completely disappeared from the story after S1. Sure, Catherine and Ben were soap opera archetypes on the original show, but L/F could easily have found very interesting use for her in the new season...and I have a hunch that they did, and she just wasn’t interested.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby mtwentz » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:55 pm

Piper was asked by the O&A guy right after the new season was announced and expressed she hoped to be asked to be in Season 3. So I assumed she wasn’t asked. However, it’s possible she was asked and just was not thrilled by the pay.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Agent Earle » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:41 am

Regarding Sherilyn Fenn's behaviour, there are certain comparisons with a certain iconic - just as iconic as Audrey, at any rate - little man floating around in my head that I won't say out loud for the sake of politeness. I'll just say that I think fans apply different standards of what's (jn)appropriate of an actor/actress when it comes to these things.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby mtwentz » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:09 am

Agent Earle wrote:Regarding Sherilyn Fenn's behaviour, there are certain comparisons with a certain iconic - just as iconic as Audrey, at any rate - little man floating around in my head that I won't say out loud for the sake of politeness. I'll just say that I think fans apply different standards of what's (jn)appropriate of an actor/actress when it comes to these things.


The difference is the person to which you refer crosses the line when they hints that Lynch is Leland Palmer. Fenn never came close to saying anything like that, as far as I can recall.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby AXX°N N. » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:58 am

The comparison to MJA is absolutely ludicrous. When one sees what one perceives as "going overboard" regarding the politics of sex, one must be careful not to overcompensate by jumping off into the abyss and landing onto insensible ground. Fire does not fight fire. Fenn has never, for instance, made extremely homophobic and antisemitic statements to fans. There's just no comparison at all.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Agent Earle » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:27 am

Since I started this debate: I'd say Fenn's grandstanding stance about the importance of her role is very similar to MJA's, as is her generously displayed feeling of entitlement (which gets more and more generous as she progresses in age) - both act/have acted as if the TP universe starts and ends with them. The difference in the outcome being, of course, Fenn got Lynch and Frost to re-write her role in the third season while MJA is a universally loathed black sheep of the "family", never to be heard about again; and still she clamors for more, conveniently hiding behind the trendy "Hollywood women in peril" schtick. Ugh. Plus in MJA's case, we have his mental issues to consider (although Fenn doesn't exactly rub me the right way in this aspect as well, what with all the manically religious claptrap).

I'm not his advocate, and I realise I'm not winning any popularity awards here, but I'm just saying the principle they operate on is basically one and the same. You have to be blind not to see it.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Soolsma » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:34 am

I understand Earle's sentiment in that there is a similarity in their tantrum like behavior. But ooofff... let's not delve much deeper in to this (again). There are different ways of going off topic and this is the kind that can be detrimental to a thread.

I feel like Catherine couldn't really have fit in to TPTR story as we know it now. There wasn't really a possibility to revive the Mill subplot and the associated Ben, Pete, Josie, Packard dynamic, nor do I think L nor F would have wanted to go there. So either there would have been another new subplot involving her, or she would've been placed into one of the plots we saw. For the latter I don't really see a good match. Ben's would seemingly be obvious, but I don't see her story fitting in with Ben's contemporary character dynamics that L&F wanted to explore.

Then again, this was TPTR and any kind of character could've fitted in anywhere without disturbing the whole too much. ONE ONE NINE! ONE ONE NINE!

I do believe there's a very decent chance that -were a s4 to happen- some of the original actors we haven't seen might make a comeback. This gives 'new' material to build on while retaining that sweet nostalgia.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Soolsma » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:05 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I do feel that addressing the shutdown of the Mill, and the state of American industry in this particular political moment, is something Frost might have done wonders with.


I'm guessing you're deriving this notion from the fact that the contemporary political/economic climate is what inspired Frost to have Cooper wake up in an impoverished Vegas suburb. I do think Frost very carefully chose to just show/convey the feeling and to omit exploring those thematics verbally. From that point of view, some shots, or part of the story taking place (Richard meeting Red?) in the decayed mill would have been a good fit; a politically colored narrative involving it, not so much.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:51 am

It doesn't really matter that Josie, Leo, and Windom were deceased. For example, if it had been Leo wearing the Truck You shirt and hitting on Sarah Palmer, would that have surprised anyone or felt out of place? At that point in the show, we'd ventured into some very trippy territory. Even something like Windom Earle dancing at the Roadhouse would have fit right in:

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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:55 am

Soolsma wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:I do feel that addressing the shutdown of the Mill, and the state of American industry in this particular political moment, is something Frost might have done wonders with.


I'm guessing you're deriving this notion from the fact that the contemporary political/economic climate is what inspired Frost to have Cooper wake up in an impoverished Vegas suburb. I do think Frost very carefully chose to just show/convey the feeling and to omit exploring those thematics verbally. From that point of view, some shots, or part of the story taking place (Richard meeting Red?) in the decayed mill would have been a good fit; a politically colored narrative involving it, not so much.


It needn’t be overtly political, but more exploration of the effects on the town of the mill closing, just in terms of the townspeople’s day to day reality, could have been interesting. The personal is the political.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby bob_wooler » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:39 am

Soolsma wrote:I do believe there's a very decent chance that -were a s4 to happen- some of the original actors we haven't seen might make a comeback. This gives 'new' material to build on while retaining that sweet nostalgia.

Hm. May explain the Ontkean-mystery? S4 already in the can? (sorry, couldn't resist (but still..))

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