Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:09 am

Esselgee wrote:
AgentEcho wrote:Showtime is reviving Dexter. Gotta think they'd be all over more Twin Peaks.


The last episode of Dexter had 3.3 million viewers. The last episode of Twin Peaks on Showtime had 240,000 viewers. I can't see why Showtime would want more TP when ratings were that low. You could argue about how many subscribers TP could bring, but those kind of numbers are low by Showtime standards.


TP was never about the ratings for them. It was a prestige thing to raise the network’s profile and attract higher-tier creators. I’m certain they’d do another season if Lynch came knocking.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby eyeboogers » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:06 pm

Esselgee wrote:
AgentEcho wrote:Showtime is reviving Dexter. Gotta think they'd be all over more Twin Peaks.


The last episode of Dexter had 3.3 million viewers. The last episode of Twin Peaks on Showtime had 240,000 viewers. I can't see why Showtime would want more TP when ratings were that low. You could argue about how many subscribers TP could bring, but those kind of numbers are low by Showtime standards.


I think the low on air numbers surprised most people here. The word for my own reaction would be "shocked". Based on the strong streaming numbers the first seasons had enjoyed on Netflix, and how I could see that it was one of the few shows that multiple generations held in high regard, I had honestly expected "Twin Peaks" to completely beat "Game of Thrones" on sunday nights. That is not exactly how it went down.

That being said, it brought in tons of subscribers, many people streamed it rather than watch on flow TV (again myself included), and the show has a gigantic following globally, which is not the case for many other shows, that might do well in the States, but for whatever reason doesn't translate culturally. Also "Twin Peaks" has proven to have a long shelf life. People are likely to still be watching this season in twenty years and generate profits. Can the same be said for "Dexter"?

"Dexter" and most everything else on "Showtime" are not strong critical performers. As I recall "Dexter" has started to become almost an embarrassment for the network in that regard. "Twin Peaks" received thunderous applause from some of the most prestigious publications. It showed that Showtime could be a serious player that can attract A list talent.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:17 pm

eyeboogers wrote: "Dexter" and most everything else on "Showtime" are not strong critical performers. As I recall "Dexter" has started to become almost an embarrassment for the network in that regard. "Twin Peaks" received thunderous applause from some of the most prestigious publications. It showed that Showtime could be a serious player that can attract A list talent.


Exactly, and Nevins repeatedly said as much even before the series aired. It was an attempt to show they could play in HBO’s league in terms of high-profile prestige critically-praised programming. I’m sure they hoped the series would have gotten more awards than it did (that surprised me moreso than the low ratings, honestly), but TP did exactly what ShowTime wanted it to do. Dexter’s value to ShowTime vs. TP’s is apples and oranges.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Soolsma » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:25 pm

Even Dexter returning, heh. After it's very dragged-out 8 seasons run. I'm curious if a re-approach of the character can provide for an interesting arc. All these reboots everywhere, are we in the golden age of ''The Return''?

Oh and I still believe Lynch making a series for another platform, Peaks or not, is at least as likely as him returning to Showtime. Especially now that he proved himself with the Return. Knowing Lynch, he doesn't care much where the money comes from, as long as he gets it, plus his freedom. That being said, I wouldn't calculate SHO's willingness into the probability of Lynch making more TV!

Actually, was Showtime the only company he pitched The Return to? Someone remind me how all that happened? Something to with CBS?
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Jasper » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:41 pm

Jasper wrote:
Jerry Horne wrote:PM's are working now.


And the picture up top has mysteriously changed.

Image


Wait, have we had this one before? Does it alternate with Laura at the end of FWWM?
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Jasper » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:44 pm

Soolsma wrote:Even Dexter returning, heh. After it's very dragged-out 8 seasons run. I'm curious if a re-approach of the character can provide for an interesting arc. All these reboots everywhere, are we in the golden age of ''The Return''?

Oh and I still believe Lynch making a series for another platform, Peaks or not, is at least as likely as him returning to Showtime. Especially now that he proved himself with the Return. Knowing Lynch, he doesn't care much where the money comes from, as long as he gets it, plus his freedom. That being said, I wouldn't calculate SHO's willingness into the probability of Lynch making more TV!

Actually, was Showtime the only company he pitched The Return to? Someone remind me how all that happened? Something to with CBS?


There were rumors, but I think Frost said that it was Showtime from the start.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Esselgee » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:35 pm

So where is all the A-list talent that doing TP was supposed to bring to Showtime? It seems like all the big names are going to Netflix, Apple+, or HBO/HBO Max now.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:12 pm

Soolsma wrote:
Actually, was Showtime the only company he pitched The Return to? Someone remind me how all that happened? Something to with CBS?


They had a pre-existing relationship with Gary Levine (a high-ranking programming exec) who was at ABC during the original TP run, and they also knew David Nevins, who had been at CBS Home Video prior to running Showtime. I get the sense that L/F liked and respected both guys as men of their word and hands-off executives (rare traits in the entertainment industry, it seems!). Basically, they felt they’d be in good hands. I’m sure it was an added bonus that distribution rights to the new content would stay in the CBS family so we could get full-series box sets etc.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby AXX°N N. » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:06 pm

Esselgee wrote:So where is all the A-list talent that doing TP was supposed to bring to Showtime? It seems like all the big names are going to Netflix, Apple+, or HBO/HBO Max now.

There's that Kirsten Dunst vehicle, but yeah, I don't really feel like I see any buzz directed at Showtime properties. As for its effect on luring me in as a potential viewer, the trailers they had for Ray Donovan looked indistinguishable from something like NCIS or CSI (I haven't seen it, to be fair, but it didn't look like anything I'd be interested in). And the show they slotted before TP, I'm Dying Up Here (the one about small-time comedians) which I caught 5-30 mins of depending on how generous I was or how little else I had to do in the wait for TP, seemed genuinely awful, almost to the point of self-satire, as if it were some kind of goof on mediocre TV that exists in the background on a TV set within a better show. As for me, in the brief time I spent on the station before and after the weekly TP episode, I didn't see what they were expecting me to take interest in outside of TP.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby N. Needleman » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 pm

I LOL every time Showtime brass repeat, plainly, how many subscribers TP got them and how much prestige it netted and how invaluable that was for their brand, only for people to turn around and say every six months "clearly TP was a failure for Showtime" like they don't see these interviews or press. How many times have we had this conversation in the last four years only for people to act like it's the first time just to validate their personal feelings about the revival?

The ratings not only did not shock me, but they also didn't matter. They were not looking for another Shameless or Dexter from Lynch. Peaks' import to the network was about subscriptions and renown. Critics have not forgotten it and Showtime keeps saying over and over they would be more than happy to get more TP. I completely believe them. Whether it happens or Lynch/Frost choose to do it in the current climate is another story.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby AXX°N N. » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:50 pm

N. Needleman wrote:I LOL every time Showtime brass repeat, plainly, how many subscribers TP got them and how much prestige it netted and how invaluable that was for their brand, only for people to turn around and say every six months "clearly TP was a failure for Showtime" like they don't see these interviews or press. How many times have we had this conversation in the last four years only for people to act like it's the first time just to validate their personal feelings about the revival?

The ratings not only did not shock me, but they also didn't matter. They were not looking for another Shameless or Dexter from Lynch. Peaks' import to the network was about subscriptions and renown. Critics have not forgotten it and Showtime keeps saying over and over they would be more than happy to get more TP. I completely believe them. Whether it happens or Lynch/Frost choose to do it in the current climate is another story.

Isn't it a job qualification to be an executive to be able to spin anything into a positive take?

S3 could have gotten a rating of only 3 people and I'd still love it. How well it did in terms of viewership in the short vs long-term and in critical appraisal, those are all separable things.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby baxter » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:11 pm

I've always had the hunch that they simply wanted to see more Twin Peaks, and they knew the publicity would be huge.

I've always wondered what they felt when they got what they got. I'm sure they were hoping for something more mainstream, but that's just a hunch again.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:51 pm

baxter wrote:I've always had the hunch that they simply wanted to see more Twin Peaks, and they knew the publicity would be huge.

I've always wondered what they felt when they got what they got. I'm sure they were hoping for something more mainstream, but that's just a hunch again.


They read the script for the first two hours before even giving a handshake commitment. And then they read the whole script before signing off on a budget. They knew they weren’t getting a rosy-glasses nostalgia trip, and they knew what the narrative was going to be. And before the show aired, Nevins was very happily pushing the “pure heroin version of Lynch” narrative. No one ever expected, wanted, or pretended that this would be mainstream in any way.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby stro » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:18 pm

Every single Showtime show gets run into the ground, then a few feet under. There's nothing "prestige" about Showtime and never has been. The Return landing on Showtime almost assuredly had more to do with CBS owning the rights to TP and Showtime being owned by CBS than anything else. If The Return came out now instead, it'd be on CBS All Access and not Showtime.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:10 pm

stro wrote:Every single Showtime show gets run into the ground, then a few feet under. There's nothing "prestige" about Showtime and never has been. The Return landing on Showtime almost assuredly had more to do with CBS owning the rights to TP and Showtime being owned by CBS than anything else. If The Return came out now instead, it'd be on CBS All Access and not Showtime.


I agree with your first point, but again, the choice came down to L/F having relationships with two execs who are now at Showtime whom they had dealt with previously and trusted. This is per L/F in multiple interviews. Whether they feel the same way now (particularly in light of Lynch’s battle-trenches griping about budget and schedule as seen in BTS footage), who knows.

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