POLL: Predict BOB for S3 [Book spoilers permitted]

[Ross]

I think they will deal with Cooper/Bob head on. But it might be more complicated than what we are thinking about now. But I do think it will be the main thrust of S3. As for how they will show Bob's face? I'm not sure, but there could be a recast lurking in that cast list...

[tmurry]

Pretty sure this is what Michael Cera was cast for. Imagine him delivering "I have the fury of my own momentum? I guess?"

[Gabriel]

I think they knew Cooper would likely end up in the Red Room again outside of his dreams, so I think that's what Frost is talking about. I don't think they ever intended to leave him there forever. They clearly had plans for Cooper to be rescued and defeat his shadow self for a third year.

Yeah, the Secret Diary was the season one accompaniment novel, MLMT was season two's and doubtless another book would have seeded aspects of season three. No way would the gibbering loon that replaced Cooper have been able to keep going for more than a few episodes. For some time in the early days of the season three announcement, I speculated that maybe Major Briggs rescued Cooper at the cost of his own life. Cooper left town traumatised, hated by Bobby Briggs, and finally has to face his fears quarter of a century later. Probably not the case this time.

That said, I'm one of those fans some of the 'artier' types probably hate: I love the show because it's witty, funny, silly, parodies soap operas and yet manages to be more terrifying than most horror films. I like the attractive female cast, that almost everyone chainsmokes, I love Coop's black coffee and cherry pie fetish and his thing for Douglas firs and Jacoby's 3D glasses. For me, it's about the story and the fun characters and – darn! – it's so beautifully and quirkily shot.

That's where I get nervous about pre-publicity about 'comfort zones;' the show and film already pushed that anyway.

Do I think it will be that simple 25 years later? Probably not, but I also don't think we're going to see the show or character go wholly grimdark.

Hope not! Like I say, Twin Peaks was gloriously silly, quirky and fun, even as it trod some extremely dark waters. Twin Peaks stripped of a quirky, fun Cooper, the barking madness of Gordon Cole and his intermittent deafness, Albert's arrogance and inability not to laugh at 'yokels,' Andy's hilarious dopiness and Lucy's ditziness just wouldn't be Twin Peaks.

I know FWWM will be cited as missing many of those aspects, but FWWM would struggle to justify the involvement of law enforcement in Twin Peaks when Laura's hadn't died yet! Tonally, I considered FWWM a sidestep or spin-off. BOB was specifically dealt with in the first book and film, but was more a lurking presence in the background in the show, occasionally unleashed, which is how I preferred him.

[N. Needleman]

I think you'll have both the old standards and the weirder shit you like less. Which is fine because I like both.

[laughingpinecone]

One thing I don't see discussed is how Twin Peaks as a whole is markedly fanfiction-like in its development. Not necessarily in these terms, of course - this is my shorthand as a fanfiction writer myself. But it looks at itself and discovers itself in a way that imho IS closer to how fans explore characters and connections than how ongoing narratives usually progress.

Laura was supposed to be just a macguffin, then they realized hers was a story worth telling, so they gave her first a book and then a movie that don't give a damn about sticking to the mood, to the conventions, to the genres of the show they branch from. They tell Laura's story as viscerally as Laura's story requires.

Cooper's background doesn't fit in the show? Pfffft, stick it in another book, no connections to the town no structure no nothing just do it. And again, it's its own beast, one that wouldn't work for the show and wouldn't work for Laura but is fitting for Cooper's background.

Mark Frost wants to do worldbuilding? Mark Frost is gonna sit down and do 364 pages of worldbuilding like a nerd.

Seen through this lens, of course the upcoming episodes aren't gonna be a carbon copy of FWWM's mood: Cooper is not Laura, his story is not as desperate as Laura's, and with 18 hours of runtime and a cast of literal hundreds, it's probably gonna have a more widespread focus than just the protagonist no matter how troubled he might be. But it's not gonna fall back to the old balance either, because having the main character fall is a game changer, and one that begs to be explored. And when something begs to be explored, Lynch and Frost have shown that they are willing to explore it (or rope the nearest available family member into doing so, anyway). I don't see them intentionally going grimdark just as I don't see them intentionally pulling any emotional punches. Just sticking to that story in its wider context, striking whatever balance they felt was right. Looks to me like keeping the old mix of humor, horror, soap opera etc set in stone was never their priority.

I think they knew Cooper would likely end up in the Red Room again outside of his dreams, so I think that's what Frost is talking about. I don't think they ever intended to leave him there forever. They clearly had plans for Cooper to be rescued and defeat his shadow self for a third year.

Obviously not the ultimate ending, sorry if it came across that way! A fixed end of the second act in a classic three-act structure, if you will, leaving the third act's resolution as a faraway bridge to be crossed when they came to it.

[N. Needleman]

One thing I don't see discussed is how Twin Peaks as a whole is markedly fanfiction-like in its development. Not necessarily in these terms, of course - this is my shorthand as a fanfiction writer myself. But it looks at itself and discovers itself in a way that imho IS closer to how fans explore characters and connections than how ongoing narratives usually progress.

I don't think that's about fanfiction, though - I think that's just a product of the writing process in general, especially back then. In 1990, more than ever, Lynch/Frost and co. were literally making everything up as they went along, reinventing serialized narratives on TV, and sort of constantly working (and sometimes struggling) with an unwieldy balance between art, plot, individual interests and tie-in materials that some people cared about utilizing and others had zero interest in. Mark Frost and much of the cast had or wanted nothing to do with FWWM (including some of the people who filmed for it), but it was Lynch's baby. Likewise, Frost and the Secret History seem to have not had much bearing on Lynch, and it remains to be seen how much of the book wove itself into the storyline Lynch and Frost agreed upon.

Today, fanfiction makes itself up as it goes along, whereas most of peak TV is full of showrunners talking about 5-8 year plans, careful organization, huge story bibles, etc. To my knowledge TP never had a bible; I'm not sure it even had much of a writer's room. That is where the similarity with fanfiction is, in Peaks' raw spontaneity and often haphazard architecture. It was the blueprint for a lot of what we have now.

That said, I do think there will likely still be plenty of lightness, humor and soap opera in the show, because Lynch is big on those elements just as much as he is into the darkness. That's where the show's tonal dissonance - so much of it intentional, other times less so - always came from.

[tmurry]

I think we'll get something tonally between the Lynch directed season 2 episodes, with lots of humor and lighthearted character work that nonetheless has a tension (Andy taping the poster up is my mental prototype), and an upgrade on the sheer volume of the sublime material (I would prefer it go almost full sublime, a la Inland Empire, but I somehow doubt it - mmmm, 18 hour Inland Empire with the Twin Peak cast shot on professional equipment... I feel tingly). I don't think anyone here is 100% "artier" or 100% character/humor here, though I'm strongly tilted to the art side and could actually profoundly love the thing if it went full tilt Lost Highway: Washington Edition. It just can't do that. It wouldn't have gotten produced.

[Gabriel]

I think you'll have both the old standards and the weirder shit you like less. Which is fine because I like both.

I like the 'weirder shit' a bit less, but I still really like it!

I liked all Mr Lynch's work between The Elephant Man and The Straight Story. Eraserhead, Mulholland Dr and Inland Empire did less for me, but, as I often emphasise, I admire David Lynch's work even when I don't necessarily enjoy it. Inland Empire was mostly a load of old toss in my eyes, but there were moments that were spectacularly good – notably the Polish film bits and the 'death' scene, which was utterly beautiful. I mostly liked the elements of Mulholland Dr from the TV pilot and disliked much of the StudioCanal additional stuff. Eraserhead is... well... Eraserhead, enough said!

Like I say, I'm open-minded. I have no idea what will be served up. I might hate it, but I might love it. I was a die hard supporter of FWWM from the day it was released in the U.K. I took off Friday afternoon from college to watch the film and bought the (shocking quality) Guild VHS on day one of release. The sound was recorded so low on that tape that I had to turn up the TV volume to full. It meant I could hear the voices, but the tape hiss drowned all the rest of the sound mix.

So we'll see. I really want to see 'good' Cooper again. I miss him!

[laughingpinecone]

I don't think that's about fanfiction, though - I think that's just a product of the writing process in general, especially back then. In 1990, more than ever, Lynch/Frost and co. were literally making everything up as they went along, reinventing serialized narratives on TV, and sort of constantly working (and sometimes struggling) with an unwieldy balance between art, plot, individual interests and tie-in materials that some people cared about utilizing and others had zero interest in. Mark Frost and much of the cast had or wanted nothing to do with FWWM (including some of the people who filmed for it), but it was Lynch's baby. Likewise, Frost and the Secret History seem to have not had much bearing on Lynch, and it remains to be seen how much of the book wove itself into the storyline Lynch and Frost agreed upon.

Today, fanfiction makes itself up as it goes along, whereas most of peak TV is full of showrunners talking about 5-8 year plans, careful organization, huge story bibles, etc. To my knowledge TP never had a bible; I'm not sure it even had much of a writer's room. That is where the similarity with fanfiction is, in Peaks' raw spontaneity and often haphazard architecture. It was the blueprint for a lot of what we have now.

That said, I do think there will likely still be plenty of lightness, humor and soap opera in the show, because Lynch is big on those elements just as much as he is into the darkness. That's where the show's tonal dissonance - so much of it intentional, other times less so - always came from.

Twin Peaks trailblazed and invented a bunch of things, but certainly not expanded universes, which had been going strong for at least 10 years by then. The oldest Han Solo book, of which my mother owns a local first edition, is vintage expanded universe of the classic sort, providing thrilling new adventures of a beloved hero. Twin Peaks could've easily done, for example, an ongoing series on Cooper's earlier cases, instead we got a pure character study. That's not what Star Wars was doing, not what Star Trek was doing, not what Doctor Who was doing, that's STILL not what most 'verses are doing. It's a matter of perspective, of what you hold sacred and what you will happily trample over. Fanfiction - the good stuff, obviously, let's keep Sturgeon's Law outta this - can come from a place of deep, even fetishistic respect for canon, but it's free to go explore all the smallest niches, remix and hybridize. It looks at what is there, picks something and runs with it.
As I said, I'm using "fanfiction" as shorthand - it's not literally what's happening. It's a set of perspectives and priorities (such as, let's say, hiring an astrologer to retroengineer your characters' birthdays) that's closer to the ones that are loosely associated with fanfic than most.

The fact that both co-creators managed to adopt a highly transformational approach even when going solo, re-interpreting their own text, just proves they're both nerds And see, that's the point. From my corner of fandom, it doesn't even matter how much TSHOTP will prove to be relevant to the shared storyline (I'll be laughing myself to kingdom come if s3 turns out to have an UFO plot set in the 50s, hence the fake Buick receipt, but, you know, I doubt it). It matters that, for example, it told us the favourite books of a bunch of characters, and that Hawk mercilessly mocks James for his. It matters that it underlined Norma's main traits and that it told us that Gordon was Jeffries' partner and had ties to Nixon.

And for the tongue-in-cheek answer: Twin Peaks recycles old original characters ("I'll Test My Log with Every Branch of Knowledge"). Twin Peaks has the author's self-insertion named after a minor character in one of the author's fave movies. When in doubt, Twin Peaks just slaps the authors' preferences and quirks on its main character. Twin Peaks has the author straight-up chat up his characters in the blu ray equivalent of author's notes. You callin' THIS anything but fanfic?

[N. Needleman]

When in doubt, Twin Peaks just slaps the authors' preferences and quirks on its main character. Twin Peaks has the author straight-up chat up his characters in the blu ray equivalent of author's notes. You callin' THIS anything but fanfic?

Well, yeah, because it's original content and IP. It draws from pop cultural references and influences, but it is its own beast making its own rules. It is not directly derivative or working from an existing property. That's what fanfiction is.

[laughingpinecone]

When in doubt, Twin Peaks just slaps the authors' preferences and quirks on its main character. Twin Peaks has the author straight-up chat up his characters in the blu ray equivalent of author's notes. You callin' THIS anything but fanfic?

Well, yeah, because it's original content and IP. It draws from pop cultural references and influences, but it is its own beast making its own rules. It is not directly derivative or working from an existing property. That's what fanfiction is.

Looks like my tongue-in-cheek answer faceplanted against a cultural barrier! The specific examples I picked are staples of bad fanfiction which are routinely mocked. Heck, they're probably all in My Immortal to begin with, so it's funny when original content uses the same exact approaches to expand itself, with excellent results. I guarantee that in my neck of the woods, "auteur director films himself interviewing his own characters for ten minutes" is peak comedy because it's the ultimate pro version of what we all did when we were fourteen.

[Gabriel]

Looks like my tongue-in-cheek answer faceplanted against a cultural barrier!

Don't worry; I get what you're saying. You could even argue that FWWM is the screen sequel to a tie in novel – the ultimate in fan fiction!!

[laughingpinecone]

Looks like my tongue-in-cheek answer faceplanted against a cultural barrier!

Don't worry; I get what you're saying. You could even argue that FWWM is the screen sequel to a tie in novel – the ultimate in fan fiction!!

"Let me go back to this period of this character's life that's already been established in extensive detail, but now from the character's point of view so I can show you how she really felt about it all~"

[Gabriel]

"Let me go back to this period of this character's life that's already been established in extensive detail, but now from the character's point of view so I can show you how she really felt about it all~"

I'm just waiting for the bit where a CGI recreation of Jack Nance's Pete Martell is revealed to be the Dweller on the Threshold!

[Snailhead]

"Let me go back to this period of this character's life that's already been established in extensive detail, but now from the character's point of view so I can show you how she really felt about it all~"

I'm just waiting for the bit where a CGI recreation of Jack Nance's Pete Martell is revealed to be the Dweller on the Threshold!

Psst I heard Donna is gonna be Lisa Coronado with a CGI Lara Flynn Boyle face, and for flashbacks a CGI Moira Kelly face.