Audrey instead of Annie

General discussion on Twin Peaks not related to the series, film, books, music, photos, or collectors merchandise.

Moderators: Brad D, Annie, Jonah, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne

User avatar
David Locke
RR Diner Member
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:24 pm

Audrey instead of Annie

Post by David Locke »

Imagine, if you will (and I'm sure most have) if, in Episode 29, Coop goes into the Lodge to save not Annie but Audrey. I know the disappointment of Coop and Audrey's non-romance has been discussed endlessly, but I think this particular element is the most unfortunate. That is, Annie's capture by Windom Earle and ambiguous fate at series's end would have been ten times more powerful had it been the beloved Audrey, who really did have a great chemistry and friendship with Coop. Even if they didn't have a romance, even if Billy Zane still stole away her virginity on his stupid little plane before swiftly flying away forever (I always found that laughable)... it still would have been way more intense if Audrey's fate was really in Coop's hands. Perhaps this had been done before, one could say, with the OEJ's rescue early in Season 2, but still... this time it would be for real, with supernaturally-charged forces at hand far beyond the piddling low-level criminality of OEJ's staff.

Sure, Heather Graham does her best in those final episodes, but her character just is too new and hastily introduced and not well-fleshed out to make us tear our hair out in anticipation of if she will live or die (though the fact that in Ep 29 Lynch manages this element pretty well, actually, speaks kindly of his talents). I never really found Annie and Coop to have much chemistry; it just seems like a forced pairing in most scenes, and the writers even manage to botch what should be their pivotal scene together, when they finally make love, by inserting the worst kind of corny, "quirky" dialogue so indicative of the show post-Leland. However, there is at least one exception where the two do combine wonderfully: that marvelous scene by the fireplace in the Great Northern, where Coop and Annie discuss love and life generally, the latter revealing a tragic and distressed past which left her very vulnerable (and I wish Graham projected this quality just a bit more; the other problem is she's so wooden in a lot of scenes).

Just imagine how much more poignant and horrifying it would be if it was "HOW'S AUDREY??" As it is, it's chilling enough, but this would take it to another dimension.

But this is just the one significant flaw of the final episode, if I have to pick at it. Really, it's beyond amazing how perfectly done and singular that final hour is considering how shoddy and inconsistent even the "post-slump" episodes (roughly 24-28) were. (It really stuck out to me on this last viewing how much I overrated Episode 28 previously; it's not bad, but it's even more uneven than Tim Hunter's previous episode (16), and not nearly as interesting... that whole Miss Twin Peaks thing just can't be salvaged).
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by LostInTheMovies »

David Locke wrote:Just imagine how much more poignant and horrifying it would be if it was "HOW'S AUDREY??" As it is, it's chilling enough, but this would take it to another dimension.
Yes, I agree, and I say that as someone who doesn't have a big problem with Annie and even finds her kinda awkward "chemistry" with Cooper charming. But what a follow-through to everything they'd built to have it end on that line. Wow. And a way to bring it all full-circle.
It really stuck out to me on this last viewing how much I overrated Episode 28 previously; it's not bad, but it's even more uneven than Tim Hunter's previous episode (16), and not nearly as interesting... that whole Miss Twin Peaks thing just can't be salvaged).
I had the same experience myself recently. Although I find 16 pretty uneven as well. Although it's certainly the least momentous of Tim Hunter's efforts, ep. 4 is actually my favorite. The visual flourishes don't seem as baroque and forced as they will lately and he really taps into the enticing, mysterious mood in a way that no other s1 director does, outside of Lynch. I remember, on a rewatch, being surprised that he had directed #16 & #28 because #4 seemed so flawlessly controlled.
User avatar
Audrey Horne
Lodge Member
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The Great Northern

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by Audrey Horne »

no argument from me on this topic.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
User avatar
FauxOwl
RR Diner Member
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 3:08 pm

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by FauxOwl »

I'm not that down on the kiboshing of the Cooper Audrey romance... though the rumors of it being a result of Lara Flynn Boyle's interference isn't a good reason for it. In the real world, a romance between a 30 something (especially a federal law enforcement official) and a high school girl has plenty of things wrong with it. Would they have explored the murky ethics of such a relationship? I've been fine with the characterization of Cooper as someone with too high ethical standards to go down that road. That all being said, the close relationship between Audrey and Cooper could have been carried on without an implicit romance, and with or without an implicit romance, the end certainly would have had more punch if it was Audrey instead of Annie.
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by LostInTheMovies »

FauxOwl wrote:I'm not that down on the kiboshing of the Cooper Audrey romance... though the rumors of it being a result of Lara Flynn Boyle's interference isn't a good reason for it. In the real world, a romance between a 30 something (especially a federal law enforcement official) and a high school girl has plenty of things wrong with it. Would they have explored the murky ethics of such a relationship? I've been fine with the characterization of Cooper as someone with too high ethical standards to go down that road. That all being said, the close relationship between Audrey and Cooper could have been carried on without an implicit romance, and with or without an implicit romance, the end certainly would have had more punch if it was Audrey instead of Annie.
Agreed. That said, would it have saved mid-season 2? I doubt it. Engels and Peyton were wonderful at writing dialogue and character moments but obviously their plotting was not the best. It's hard for me to imagine that the Audrey-Coop storyline would have been handled with the care it deserved.
User avatar
David Locke
RR Diner Member
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:24 pm

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by David Locke »

Yeah, the Audrey-Coop romance is often touted as what could've "saved" the second season after Leland dies, but I don't see how one plot thread, however good, could make all the lesser ones somehow not as bad. And if the main plot really were Coop's romance, it'd feel like a pure soap opera or something and not Twin Peaks. (As it is, the initial post-Leland episodes feel like they don't have a "main" plot, like it's all just uninteresting smaller unconnected plots vying for our attention, with the intriguing Windom Earle/Lodge stuff at first only given a couple of minutes of screen time per episode).
User avatar
Audrey Horne
Lodge Member
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The Great Northern

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by Audrey Horne »

Nothing could have saved it... Even during the good episodes of the second season, the network and audience weren't behind it. I'm almost glad it didn't happen, because if it had and still was subpar and the show was still canceled, I couldn't gloat.

The age difference never bothered me. Maybe because of my own age at the time. But I think because it's more of a stylized world and we know we are watching actors who are roughly the same age. And it never bothers anyone when Cole and Shelly have their little romance, or the legions of fans who feel there is a Cooper, Laura semi romance going on.

I talked to Sherilyn about this, and she too agreed that they didn't have to necessarily get together but keep them narratively together like on Cheers, Moonlighting, etc.

Thematically it would have made more sense too and raised the stakes at the end, but also reinforce the twinning aspect to the show. Cooper couldn't save Laura, but perhaps he gets a second chance to save the opposite and the same Audrey.

Sigh.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by LostInTheMovies »

Audrey Horne wrote:Nothing could have saved it... Even during the good episodes of the second season, the network and audience weren't behind it. I'm almost glad it didn't happen, because if it had and still was subpar and the show was still canceled, I couldn't gloat.
Yeah, while it would have been great to have it handled well, I'd rather imagine what could have been than see it handled poorly. If that makes sense.
The age difference never bothered me. Maybe because of my own age at the time. But I think because it's more of a stylized world and we know we are watching actors who are roughly the same age.
I sometimes wonder - and maybe someone can elaborate on this - if MacLachlan explicitly nixed future character interactions or just specifically the romance. He always implies that was only the sexual aspect he objected to, but if the writers were told to stop any Cooper-Audrey relationship whatsoever that would be pretty damning as far as LFB's jealousy being the real motivator. But if it was only a consummation of the romance that he opposed, than I guess it would be fair to blame the writers allowing their friendship to be collatoral damage.
Cooper couldn't save Laura, but perhaps he gets a second chance to save the opposite and the same Audrey.
Yes, exactly. In the ideal never-to-be Twin Peaks I see the momentum of the first season being continued not through the killer never being revealed, but through a more foregrounded quest into the Lodge lore, some sort of plot device keeping Sarah Palmer and other Laura elements in play (as a clue toward the mystery in the woods), and a Cooper-Audrey relationship personalizing the whole idea of protecting innocence from the forces of darkness. What a powerful full-circle "How's Audrey?" would be with the pilot in mind: another vivacious young woman potentially falling prey to the evil embodied in a protective figure. Wow Bob wow!
Last edited by LostInTheMovies on Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Audrey Horne
Lodge Member
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The Great Northern

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by Audrey Horne »

From what I understand is she didn't even know what was going on until too late. So when the conversation with the writers and Kyle were going on she was just unaware and still doing the scenes like they would still continue on in the same manner.

I think Peyton and Frost got the underlying message clear though that they should stop the scenes altogether.

Since the angle of her now no longer being a flip side to Laura is viable, I hope they take the other foreshadowing of the early Audrey character... That she did run off to become an FBI agent and escape Twin Peaks like she daydreamed. Sort of a flip, twin to Cooper. I think it could be awesome. Her taking over the Northern is so obvious and boring, and more in keeping to the late second season neutered Audrey. Lynch always found her quirky,ethereal edge... And I hope it returns more to that interesting side of her... An outsider, studying and observing.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by LostInTheMovies »

Audrey Horne wrote:Since the angle of her now no longer being a flip side to Laura is viable, I hope they take the other foreshadowing of the early Audrey character... That she did run off to become an FBI agent and escape Twin Peaks like she daydreamed. Sort of a flip, twin to Cooper. I think it could be awesome. Her taking over the Northern is so obvious and boring, and more in keeping to the late second season neutered Audrey. Lynch always found her quirky,ethereal edge... And I hope it returns more to that interesting side of her... An outsider, studying and observing.
This would also be more in keeping with the female protagonists in all his later films. Hell, imagine if an Agent Audrey Horne somehow began to suspect/investigate Cooper? What an interesting twist, almost making the aborted earlier romance worthwhile (if anyone is the king of turning disappointments into triumphs, it's Lynch). All kinds of possibilities for 2016.
User avatar
birchy
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:02 am

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by birchy »

LostInTheMovies wrote:
Audrey Horne wrote:Since the angle of her now no longer being a flip side to Laura is viable, I hope they take the other foreshadowing of the early Audrey character... That she did run off to become an FBI agent and escape Twin Peaks like she daydreamed. Sort of a flip, twin to Cooper. I think it could be awesome. Her taking over the Northern is so obvious and boring, and more in keeping to the late second season neutered Audrey. Lynch always found her quirky,ethereal edge... And I hope it returns more to that interesting side of her... An outsider, studying and observing.
This would also be more in keeping with the female protagonists in all his later films. Hell, imagine if an Agent Audrey Horne somehow began to suspect/investigate Cooper? What an interesting twist, almost making the aborted earlier romance worthwhile (if anyone is the king of turning disappointments into triumphs, it's Lynch). All kinds of possibilities for 2016.
Sweet Jesus, yes to the above! That would be a dream. And I'm also in love with your other idea about having BOTH Lara Flynn Boyle and Moira Kelly play Donna(s).

Somewhere there was an interview with Engels (?) where he said that they were thinking about a way to save Audrey from the bank vault in the theoretical third season. I believe he said that they vaguely discussed the notion that Audrey's doppleganger could be used . . .

So, maybe, maybe we'll have Donna's evil doppleganger played by LFB. Hell, maybe we've already seen her (at the start of Season 2). And on that note, maybe we've already seen the other Audrey, she's just more business savvy and easily swayed by pilots than, you know, evil and stuff.
4815162342
RR Diner Member
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:46 am

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by 4815162342 »

Nope, it's better this way. Lynch continued with Annie in FWWM, so he clearly didn't disapprove too much.
User avatar
David Locke
RR Diner Member
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:24 pm

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by David Locke »

4815162342 wrote:Nope, it's better this way. Lynch continued with Annie in FWWM, so he clearly didn't disapprove too much.
I don't think that's evidence that Lynch loved the Annie character as much as that's just what he had to work with... it's not like he could somehow make it Audrey in the hospital/in Laura's bed instead and not have people confused. And all of Annie's appearances are pretty much tied to either explicating Coop's status or continuing the story of the ring, so it doesn't seem like the character of Annie was of utmost importance to him, but who knows.
User avatar
Gabriel
Great Northern Member
Posts: 787
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:53 pm

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by Gabriel »

I was watching episode 27 last night (the Blu-ray set is the first time I've watched the whole show through in years) when Cooper calls together the three girls and it really struck me how business-like things suddenly were with regards to Audrey. In fact, all the Annie and Wheeler scenes feel very forced as if to shout 'Hey! Coop and Audrey are history!!'

Actually, what dates the original TP show now is just how fast the narrative lurches from storyline to storyline. (In my memory, plotlines and characters were around for ages, while a lot of plotlines are actually run out in the space of a couple of episodes. I was sure David Warner as Eckhardt was around far longer than his spit-and-cough guest spot, the same with Jean Renault and Denise Bryson. In modern shows, these plots and characters would linger for at least a season.

Still, it'd be nice to see if the early Cooper/Audrey chemistry re-emerges when the characters are 61 and 43 in 2016. In my mind, Cooper's and Audrey's 'romance' had moved to an almost big-brotherly affection and love. And again, given the show only runs across one month, it fades out awfully fast (and Audrey's heroin rehab is glossed over rather quickly. She's been junked up for days and yet exhibits no cravings or withdrawal after her rescue.) In fact, I half wonder if Wheeler was a wealthy heroin dealer and she scewed him for a heroin fix on his plane...

In a modern TV era, TP can be rather more complex and involved than it could be in 1990. There can be narrative threads in there that can last years when there are so few episodes to deal with. I wish it had been Audrey in the final episode. It would have made sense that, after his failures to save Laura and Maddy in the physical world that he would try to save Audrey in the spiritual domain. Annie winning Miss Twin Peaks and being grabbed seemed so obvious at the time.

As for Maddy, she seems to be forgotten almost immediately, no mention of funerals, family members or anything. Even Sarah Palmer is grieving for Leland and Laura immediately after his death and not the sweet, gentle niece who looked after her and was murdered under her roof!!!
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Audrey instead of Annie

Post by LostInTheMovies »

Gabriel wrote:As for Maddy, she seems to be forgotten almost immediately, no mention of funerals, family members or anything. Even Sarah Palmer is grieving for Leland and Laura immediately after his death and not the sweet, gentle niece who looked after her and was murdered under her roof!!!
Michael Warren, at 35 Years of David Lynch, has a great post on this: http://entertainmentguidefilmtv.blogspo ... 20-26.html. The captions under the pictures from Leland's wake are priceless and withering, perfectly summing up why that scene is such a train wreck.
Post Reply