NON SPOILERS: Twin Peaks: Season 3 on Showtime Thread

[guildnavigator]

All I am saying is that there are pieces of the storyline that make no sense to me and they all stem from the reveal of the killer, which lynch was against doing at all. More referring to the idea of "Ben is guilty, Leland, come with us and represent him" than the actual reveal episode.

If Leland is supposed to be going along with it because he knows the truth, then it's still silly to me for Cooper to say that to Leland. Why not just arrest Leland there? An FBI agent knowingly and publicly falsely accuses someone of rape and murder then arrests the person and asks the father of the victim to come represent the killer?

It makes more sense for the FBI agent and the sheriff to just arrest the killer - but There's not really any point in trying to make sense of any of this anyways, it's not a Law and Order episode, Cooper solved the case through his visions and dreams. Logic is out the window.

But again linear storylines are not why I like twin peaks. Never have been.

[guildnavigator]

To me the greatest parts of twin peaks are the pilot and the final episode, far and above the reveal of the killer.

[djerdap]

As a few people have said, Leland doesn't think that Ben did it. He's defending a friend. This is even more interesting, because why doesn't Leland think Ben did it? Because Leland knows that Leland did it? Because he's just typical good Leland at the time and knows in his heart that Ben didn't do it? Because Leland is Bob at the time, or maybe just Leland, feeling relieved that he hasn't been caught? There's plenty going on in that scene, and none of it is as simple as "why would Leland defend his daughter's murderer?" Both Leland and the audience KNOW that Ben didn't do it.

Again, I don't think that there is one iota of implication that this is what is going on in the episode, both in terms of writing and Wise's performance. The idea is poor, but the execution of it is even worse. It's not as simple as "why would Leland defend his daughter's murderer?" indeed - the additional question would be "why the hell would Leland get himself involved in this since he is an emotional mess, even if he does not believe Ben is the killer"? And why is everybody onboard to this ludicrous suggestion of Cooper like there is no manic conflict of interest going on here, especially since Leland is on trial for murder during that time as well? It's a classic example of a plot rushing towards its conclusion and betraying its characters in the process.

But hey, at least we agree on episode 14.

[LateReg]

As a few people have said, Leland doesn't think that Ben did it. He's defending a friend. This is even more interesting, because why doesn't Leland think Ben did it? Because Leland knows that Leland did it? Because he's just typical good Leland at the time and knows in his heart that Ben didn't do it? Because Leland is Bob at the time, or maybe just Leland, feeling relieved that he hasn't been caught? There's plenty going on in that scene, and none of it is as simple as "why would Leland defend his daughter's murderer?" Both Leland and the audience KNOW that Ben didn't do it.

Again, I don't think that there is one iota of implication that this is what is going on in the episode, both in terms of writing and Wise's performance. The idea is poor, but the execution of it is even worse. It's not as simple as "why would Leland defend his daughter's murderer?" indeed - the additional question would be "why the hell would Leland get himself involved in this since he is an emotional mess, even if he does not believe Ben is the killer"? And why is everybody onboard to this ludicrous suggestion of Cooper like there is no manic conflict of interest going on here, especially since Leland is on trial for murder during that time as well? It's a classic example of a plot rushing towards its conclusion and betraying its characters in the process.

But hey, at least we agree on episode 14.

There must be some kind of implication there if I, at the very least, mistook the scene for being that way! Maybe Leland got himself involved precisely because he's an emotional mess? And everybody being on board with Cooper is certainly explained - maybe somewhat lazily - when Albert (I think) tells him he has to be the one to finish it. Everyone gives him free reign to follow his intuition. Just like so many earlier moments when Coop allows Harry to do something not quite by the book, there's an element of trust there. Not saying it's the best written, but that it does make sense in the moment (to me at least).

[IcedOver]

Does anyone else feel that Lynch's persistent comments that this is going to be a "film in 18 parts" indicate that the episodes won't follow typical TV episode structures (as the original series did)?

[LateReg]

Does anyone else feel that Lynch's persistent comments that this is going to be a "film in 18 parts" indicate that the episodes won't follow typical TV episode structures (as the original series did)?

I think that's a definite possibility. Or there may be less stereotypical cliffhangers. There's an episode of Breaking Bad that ends right as a gunfight begins, mid-machine gun fire. Usually, an episode would end right before the confrontation begins, or right after the confrontation ends, not ten seconds after it starts! I wonder if we'll see similarly unique decisions being made here, how Lynch's intuition will lead to episodes ending, etc.

[secretlettermkr]

Does anyone else feel that Lynch's persistent comments that this is going to be a "film in 18 parts" indicate that the episodes won't follow typical TV episode structures (as the original series did)?

I think thats probably the case, i feel we are going to watch literally an 18hours film.
Similar to Rainer Werner Fassbinder's Berlin Alexanderplatz

[Rainwater]

Does anyone else feel that Lynch's persistent comments that this is going to be a "film in 18 parts" indicate that the episodes won't follow typical TV episode structures (as the original series did)?

Given the way it was written and filmed, I don't see how the parts could be structured like typical episodes.

[arczi_ancymon]

Does anyone else feel that Lynch's persistent comments that this is going to be a "film in 18 parts" indicate that the episodes won't follow typical TV episode structures (as the original series did)?

I think thats probably the case, i feel we are going to watch literally an 18hours film.
Similar to Rainer Werner Fassbinder's Berlin Alexanderplatz

It doesn't have structure that you can call typical for american television (because it's, obviously, isn't), so there's no cliffhangers etc., but it's definitely structured as a series, each episode is, to some degree, it's own entity. So I won't call this an accurate comparison.

I can see season 3 as being something like 24, which narrative is - surely - highly "serialized", but It feels lika a one whole, that is cut for parts - no typical structure with episode = one day (yeah, sure, in 24 one episode was like one hour, but it's just some loose comparison) or episode = theme of the week.

[AnotherBlueRoseCase]

Indeed, the reveal episode is an actual masterpiece. The final 20 minutes of that episode, in which the reveal occurs, is hands down for me the greatest 20 minutes in TV history.

It is indeed, but the revelation --> Maddy's murder structure should have been reversed IMO. We should have seen Leland attack and kill Maddy as Leland only, and then afterward see his face replaced by BOB's. Ideally we should even have been able to deduce for ourselves that Leland = BOB before this is revealed visually. Dramatically and thematically this would have made TV drama's greatest moment even greater.

[djerdap]

Indeed, the reveal episode is an actual masterpiece. The final 20 minutes of that episode, in which the reveal occurs, is hands down for me the greatest 20 minutes in TV history.

It is indeed, but the revelation --> Maddy's murder structure should have been reversed IMO. We should have seen Leland attack and kill Maddy as Leland, and then afterward see his face replaced by BOB's. Ideally we should even have been able to deduce for ourselves that Leland = BOB before this is revealed visually. Dramatically and thematically this would have made TV drama's greatest moment even greater.

Nah. The constant switching between Leland and BOB makes that scene.

[AnotherBlueRoseCase]

Keep switching away, sure, but prior to this have the audience deduce for themselves mid-murder that Leland = BOB. That's a superior revelation, emotionally and thematically, to the mirror.

[bob_wooler]

I'm sure this don't mean anything, but you never know.

[WhiteLodge90]

However, I do not believe there is anything wrong with the Roadhouse scene.

Cooper saying that Leland should be Ben's attorney and Leland nonchalantly going along with it is totally asinine, making everybody in that room - especially BOB - to behave subsequently like total idiots. Probably the biggest mistake in an episode with its fair share of problems.

Not really Leland (Bob) was supremely confident he wasn't getting caught. Actually it was quite a brilliant move by Cooper and clever by the writers.

[WhiteLodge90]

All I am saying is that there are pieces of the storyline that make no sense to me and they all stem from the reveal of the killer, which lynch was against doing at all. More referring to the idea of "Ben is guilty, Leland, come with us and represent him" than the actual reveal episode.

If Leland is supposed to be going along with it because he knows the truth, then it's still silly to me for Cooper to say that to Leland. Why not just arrest Leland there? An FBI agent knowingly and publicly falsely accuses someone of rape and murder then arrests the person and asks the father of the victim to come represent the killer?

It makes more sense for the FBI agent and the sheriff to just arrest the killer - but There's not really any point in trying to make sense of any of this anyways, it's not a Law and Order episode, Cooper solved the case through his visions and dreams. Logic is out the window.

But again linear storylines are not why I like twin peaks. Never have been.

This was done for numerous reasons. Part of which was a dramatic element from the writers to draw the climax out even longer and part of it was Cooper cleverly knowing that Leland/Bob was very, very dangerous and I think by sneaking Bob into that confined room he had hoped to catch him off guard and not let Bob get out. It didn't work obviously but it was a smart plan.

Again Leland was supremely confident he wasn't getting caught. This is the same guy who went head on into a police car with the body in the back of his trunk and dared Cooper to look inside. The guy was straight fearless. So him representing Ben was likely in his mind a way to make him seem even more innocent.