NON SPOILERS: Twin Peaks: Season 3 on Showtime Thread

[laughingpinecone]

That's a fantastic insight, Reindeer. Though that wasn't MEANT to be the Lodge, the interpretation works so well in retrospect.

It wasn't called Lodge yet, sure, they probably had no idea what it was, but I don't think this makes any of the massive foreshadowing any less intended from the get-go... the red room is already the ending of the international pilot. Of course the international pilot ending as a whole is cheesy, noncanon nonsense meant to hastily close the case in 20 minutes, AND THEN. No-one asked for that coda. The red room sequence is a statement as much as it is a vision: the case isn't closed, connections were overlooked, our protagonist will not leave this story.
The most larval form of Twin Peaks' ending is just this: Dale Cooper is trapped in a metaphysical space. When Frost says that having Coop end there was always the plan, I believe him 100% because that was already the first ending. Just as a general direction. Details famously came later. You don't need to have all the details mapped out to start dropping hints that that's exactly what's gonna happen, somehow, at some point.

(and then: ep29, Dale Cooper is trapped in a metaphysical space. FWWM, Dale Cooper is trapped in a metaphysical space. 25 years later...? Out of all the thoughts connected to the upcoming episodes that manage to give me the chills, this is always the one with the deepest, farthest-reaching roots: we are moving past that fixed point and into uncharted territory)

As for the ending of ep2, I think it can be read in a few ways (possibly all at once) but imho the bottom line remains that that spark of connection to deeper truths that had given him that moment with Laura was gone. I don't think he could have told Harry on the phone. Like a dream that you are sure you can tell but that vanishes as soon as you try to put it into words?
A friend once pointed out that in Lynch's supernatural movies, the law enforcement characters observe and try to catalogue this strange reality but can never really grasp it. Think of the cops in Mulholland Drive and especially Lost Highway. And I think this is true in Twin Peaks as well, but since these law enforcement characters are our likeable protagonists, it's harder to see it.

[mtwentz]

That's a fantastic insight, Reindeer. Though that wasn't MEANT to be the Lodge, the interpretation works so well in retrospect.

It wasn't called Lodge yet, sure, they probably had no idea what it was, but I don't think this makes any of the massive foreshadowing any less intended from the get-go... the red room is already the ending of the international pilot. Of course the international pilot ending as a whole is cheesy, noncanon nonsense meant to hastily close the case in 20 minutes, AND THEN. No-one asked for that coda. The red room sequence is a statement as much as it is a vision: the case isn't closed, connections were overlooked, our protagonist will not leave this story.
The most larval form of Twin Peaks' ending is just this: Dale Cooper is trapped in a metaphysical space. When Frost says that having Coop end there was always the plan, I believe him 100% because that was already the first ending. Just as a general direction. Details famously came later. You don't need to have all the details mapped out to start dropping hints that that's exactly what's gonna happen, somehow, at some point.

(and then: ep29, Dale Cooper is trapped in a metaphysical space. FWWM, Dale Cooper is trapped in a metaphysical space. 25 years later...? Out of all the thoughts connected to the upcoming episodes that manage to give me the chills, this is always the one with the deepest, farthest-reaching roots: we are moving past that fixed point and into uncharted territory)

As for the ending of ep2, I think it can be read in a few ways (possibly all at once) but imho the bottom line remains that that spark of connection to deeper truths that had given him that moment with Laura was gone. I don't think he could have told Harry on the phone. Like a dream that you are sure you can tell but that vanishes as soon as you try to put it into words?
A friend once pointed out that in Lynch's supernatural movies, the law enforcement characters observe and try to catalogue this strange reality but can never really grasp it. Think of the cops in Mulholland Drive and especially Lost Highway. And I think this is true in Twin Peaks as well, but since these law enforcement characters are our likeable protagonists, it's harder to see it.

I would not call the International pilot cheesy- I would call it a fairly typical Lynchian type ending . Had Twin Peaks never been picked up as a full series, how would it have been interpreted? I think most people would have interpreted it as 1) A dream/fantasy of Cooper's or 2) The Afterlife.

In either interpretation, the Red Room scene tells more about Cooper than about who killed Laura and what their motive was. It shows us Cooper is secretly attracted to Laura his object of inquiry, and yes, he wants to be seduced by her. If we go by this interpretation, the LMFAP might be seen as a phallic symbol (curiously, he is later interpreted in FWWM to be another body part, "the arm"). I think that Red Room Scene is along the lines of what we learn about Jeffrey and his secret desires in Blue Velvet, only made a little more respectable for television and put in either a dream or afterlife sequence.

In the T.V. show Ep. 2, we do see Coop wake up with a cowlick, and now that I think about it, was that way of Lynch showing that Coop is 'aroused'?

I think for Season 3, it will be curious if Coop's secret attraction to Laura is a main theme again.

[Dead Dog]

^ Nice post. Interesting thoughts, I hadn't interpreted the cow lick in that way, but it works, whether intentional or not.

[AXX°N N.]

(and then: ep29, Dale Cooper is trapped in a metaphysical space. FWWM, Dale Cooper is trapped in a metaphysical space. 25 years later...? Out of all the thoughts connected to the upcoming episodes that manage to give me the chills, this is always the one with the deepest, farthest-reaching roots: we are moving past that fixed point and into uncharted territory.)

This is well put and captures exactly this enormity I feel about the fact there will be more out of the narrative; as someone who has curated theory, approaching pieces of obscure symbolism as set in stone and yielding all they ever will in their hermetic ways, Cooper and the whole of TP has more or less been arrested in my mind just as in the lodge -- that we will finally take up with him again is throwing so much of my experience with Twin Peaks as a whole, circular piece of art into sudden and unexpected flux.

[SpookyDollhouse]

Anybody in Texas for the Twin Peaks event? The official Twitter account is calling it a "first look." If the event gets exclusive footage tidbits WOW

[DirkG]

The ending to episode 2 (Cooper calling Harry) and its resolution in episode 3 is exactly the sort of things that makes Twin Peaks stand out imo and separates it from ordinary shows. Without those it wouldn't be my favorite series of all time.

[kitty666cats]

That's a fantastic insight, Reindeer. Though that wasn't MEANT to be the Lodge, the interpretation works so well in retrospect.

It wasn't called Lodge yet, sure, they probably had no idea what it was, but I don't think this makes any of the massive foreshadowing any less intended from the get-go... the red room is already the ending of the international pilot. Of course the international pilot ending as a whole is cheesy, noncanon nonsense meant to hastily close the case in 20 minutes, AND THEN. No-one asked for that coda. The red room sequence is a statement as much as it is a vision: the case isn't closed, connections were overlooked, our protagonist will not leave this story.
The most larval form of Twin Peaks' ending is just this: Dale Cooper is trapped in a metaphysical space. When Frost says that having Coop end there was always the plan, I believe him 100% because that was already the first ending. Just as a general direction. Details famously came later. You don't need to have all the details mapped out to start dropping hints that that's exactly what's gonna happen, somehow, at some point.

(and then: ep29, Dale Cooper is trapped in a metaphysical space. FWWM, Dale Cooper is trapped in a metaphysical space. 25 years later...? Out of all the thoughts connected to the upcoming episodes that manage to give me the chills, this is always the one with the deepest, farthest-reaching roots: we are moving past that fixed point and into uncharted territory)

As for the ending of ep2, I think it can be read in a few ways (possibly all at once) but imho the bottom line remains that that spark of connection to deeper truths that had given him that moment with Laura was gone. I don't think he could have told Harry on the phone. Like a dream that you are sure you can tell but that vanishes as soon as you try to put it into words?
A friend once pointed out that in Lynch's supernatural movies, the law enforcement characters observe and try to catalogue this strange reality but can never really grasp it. Think of the cops in Mulholland Drive and especially Lost Highway. And I think this is true in Twin Peaks as well, but since these law enforcement characters are our likeable protagonists, it's harder to see it.

I would not call the International pilot cheesy- I would call it a fairly typical Lynchian type ending . Had Twin Peaks never been picked up as a full series, how would it have been interpreted? I think most people would have interpreted it as 1) A dream/fantasy of Cooper's or 2) The Afterlife.

In either interpretation, the Red Room scene tells more about Cooper than about who killed Laura and what their motive was. It shows us Cooper is secretly attracted to Laura his object of inquiry, and yes, he wants to be seduced by her. If we go by this interpretation, the LMFAP might be seen as a phallic symbol (curiously, he is later interpreted in FWWM to be another body part, "the arm"). I think that Red Room Scene is along the lines of what we learn about Jeffrey and his secret desires in Blue Velvet, only made a little more respectable for television and put in either a dream or afterlife sequence.

In the T.V. show Ep. 2, we do see Coop wake up with a cowlick, and now that I think about it, was that way of Lynch showing that Coop is 'aroused'?

I think for Season 3, it will be curious if Coop's secret attraction to Laura is a main theme again.

I dunno if Coop really has a secret longing/attraction to Laura. He openly states to Harry that the beautiful woman who kisses him in his dream is Laura, and doesn't really act ashamed about it or try to hide it.

[dronerstone]

Anybody in Texas for the Twin Peaks event? The official Twitter account is calling it a "first look." If the event gets exclusive footage tidbits WOW

Let's hope this gonna be the first official trailer and it gets "normal" network airplay a week after... That'd be swell.

[Rhodes]

Actually, watching the show back, there are loads of hints that things end up the way they do.

Just rewatched Episode 2 last night, and got the distinct vibe that, when Coop wakes up from his dream at the end, DoppelCoop may have briefly slipped into his consciousness. Episode 2 is a brilliant hour of television, but I've always despised that ending (or, rather, the ending in conjunction with the way it pays off in the next episode) -- it's the laziest kind of fake-out cliffhanger, and worse, it makes Dale look incompetent and careless ("Yes, it CAN wait until morning." Next morning: "Uh, whoops, I forgot"). However, it's a lot more palatable if Cooper's first contact with the Lodge briefly turns a switch in him, as an omen of things to come. The fact that he seems to still be hearing music from the Lodge supports this, as well as his somewhat devious glare and deliberate delivery (which to my ear is slightly reminiscent of the end of Episode 29). Even the comical cowlick looks a bit like a demon/devil's horn.

I aways find that one of the weakest parts of season 1.

I think it was just lazy writing. But it is much nicer to think about it along the lines of your interpretation!

[djerdap]

It was not lazy writing. It's pretty clear to me that Cooper has the answer trapped in his subconscious from the beginning. It's not like he forgot the name of the killer between the time he woke up and the breakfast. I'd argue he tried to remember it in the meantime but failed to do so.

The "I don't remember" line and Harry and Lucy's awshucks reaction to it is just classic Twin Peaks humour. One of my favourite scenes of season 1.

[Rhodes]

It's not like he forgot the name of the killer between the time he woke up and the breakfast.

But it isn't it totally unbelievable that he says "I can wait to tomorrow" and that Harry accepts this? Such a thing is worse than torture.

[djerdap]

It's not like he forgot the name of the killer between the time he woke up and the breakfast.

But it isn't it totally unbelievable that he says "I can wait to tomorrow" and that Harry accepts this? Such a thing is worse than torture.

Harry is already established as a character with total confidence in Cooper. And he is already aware of his eccentric and intuitive investigative methods. Note that this happens after the rock throwing sequence.

All perfectly believable in my mind.

[mtwentz]

Cooper at best has a bunch from his dream. He has no evidence, unless in the world of Twin Peaks dreams are admissable in court . So why would he need to meet with Truman right away?

[Audrey Horne]

Oh, I think that's when it's writing was at its peek. The show was at its strongest meta. It's a soap opera with every classic genre thrown in. Cooper is basically telling the audience, nooo you're not getting off the ride yet.

[Agent Sam Stanley]

I think Cooper wanted to wait until morning so he could elaborate better the explanation of how he figured out the identity of the killer thru a dream. That's not easily digested information, especially at 3 am (or whatever the time was) thru a phone.


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