Best Way to watch fwwm and Twin Peaks?

[sparco1979]

I've been a huge Twin Peaks fan since i was 11 (watching it in BBC2 on Tuesday nights as i'm from the UK and was in primary 7 mental!) and always make a point of watching it every year about February/March ie the time it happened in 1990.

Got a new Flatscreen TV in so im going to watch the Gold Box Set Again

I've been thinking the best way to watch Fire Walk with Me now is between episodes 16 and 17

with 16 you get the end of the Laura Palmer Investigation so its good once its solved to watch it from there and also as FWWM has the sequel elements (Annie appearing to Laura) its a good forewarning of the end of the series

What do you folks think of course you can watch it either way!

Also wish they let Matt Haley do that Graphic Novel! any kind of ending (dosent need to be canon) would have been good!

[Exy]

Personally, I could watch FWWM at any time as I think it stands up as a feature film in its own right outside of viewing the series. However, if I am showing it to friends for the first time I save FWWM as a coda after episode 29. Usually, viewers feel cheated by the open-endedness of the last TV episode and the doubt hanging over Cooper's fate and watching FWWM serves as good closure.

[TheArm]

Yeah, given how many connections the film has to the end of the series (Annie's appearance, references to "the Good Dale" in the Lodge, Cooper's appearance with Laura in the Lodge at the end of the film, etc.), I think it's always best left to watch after you've finished the entire series. Plus, I find it's whole tone of FWWM a little less jarring after the finale, considering how dark and bleak both the finale and the film both are (as opposed to earlier episodes, which have much more humor).

[charles]

just don't watch FWWM at all. That's my advice:)

[missoulamt]

Just out of curiousity Charles, what is it you don't like about FWWM? And why does it fall short of the series, in your opinion?

[PackardSawmill]

This occurs when we observe..

...hey guys, not sure of charles' opinion, but I could rave eternally about fwwm -
just waiting for someone to request personal reviews and I could gush for pages
about the depths this movie has thrown me, and many others into ..
In addition, as an accessory and compliment to the series, fwwm has a relationship so strong
to the purity of it's origins i.e. it's creator, and it's intended content, that it is second only to that
of the film, and the viewer. The audience, with all of there own pristine intuition, plays a role.
As an observer, there are unintended consequences for taking part in this movie, and series for that matter.
It is this unintentionallity process that I would like to further explore, and perhaps simultaneously reflect on
the apparently implied associations within the film, that are being well established.

Also, for me provocation is the mark of any good work of art,
Like many lynch films, I can appreciate the complexity of such and undertaking - and the result,
for me is both mysterious and wonderful !
Although I completely understand those who prefer resolution after such a lynchian dinner menu,
perhaps even a sweet dessert would have provided for you, a conscious cozying dinnermint..
For me, however, closure kills the heart of a mystery ~
And like MD, I felt so nutritiously satisfied after both these meals !

PS, I do have the original 35mm trailer of fwwm which I plan on framing nicely very soon

[charles]

Just out of curiousity Charles, what is it you don't like about FWWM? And why does it fall short of the series, in your opinion?

Well, it's not as much in comparison to the series that I have a problem with FWWM, it's more when I compare it to the pilot. I feel that the pilot represents the purest vision of Twin Peaks -it's certainly the one piece that stands up 100% after 20 years. After that, I consider the first season (and pretty much up to episode 14) to be nearly flawless. Clearly I adore the shit out of it. However, a little of me died and a whole lot of the beauty of Twin Peaks died when the mystery of Laura's killer was resolved. That central mystery was, to me, the glue that held it all together. At any rate, back to why I don't enjoy FWWM... Firstly, I detest the fact that they shot the film deep in the heart of Summer. Vibrant green trees, blue skies and sun everywhere! No mist in the trees, no gloom. Visually, this kills any trace of the wet, misty, dark mood of the pilot . I'd be willing to bet that if budget and timing weren't an issue, Lynch and Frost would have preferred setting the film in the Winter in which it was supposed to take place (only a week before the pilot began! Secondly, I mourn the complete and utter omission of the character the woods played throughout the pilot, series and Laura's diary. Presumably, that was the major reason they set the show where they did -to exploit the damp, mossy, majestic, dark, mysterious forests of the Pacific Northwest. They didn't take the trouble to shoot the pilot in rainy, cold February for nothing.
I adore the dark themes of the film and wanted nothing more than to glimpse the living Laura in her final days. I truly appreciate the film's departure from the quirky, cutesy trappings of the series, but I still feel that FWWM doesn't seem like it's set in Twin Peaks at all. This brings me to my third and perhaps my most loathed deficiency of FWWM (besides all the sun); The house! I've gone in to this ad nauseam before, so I won't bore you with the gory details, but I'll simply say that I'm upset that they decided to shoot the outside of Laura's house where they did, in Seattle's most gigantic suburb, Everett, WA. There's NOT ONE THING Twin Peaksy about a big old crowded block of houses with no woods anywhere in sight, sitting on a wide open street where each house is only 6 feet from the one next to it and to top it all off, there are big buildings in the background in a few shots. Fuck that. Not to mention that it's not the same exterior they used in the series (though the house's interior was used in the pilot). It just rips me out of the small town of Twin Peaks and drops me into a bigger, sunnier one every time I watch it. That's pretty much why I avoid FWWM. No woods, no small town and it's SUMMER! Oh, and fake Donna.

...and Laura's big, giant, enormous wig:)

[PackardSawmill]

I would have to agree with you charles 100%, I love the film, like an endearing personal memory..
but then there's fake donna.. lol! Your so right!

[dugpa]

First let me say that I feel that the first 33 minutes of the FWWM film are flawless. They add an enhanced depth to the series that is absolutely unparalleled and in my mind nothing short of perfection.

Lynch wanted to see Laura Palmer living and to tell the story of her last remaining days. In my opinion, while I truly love this film, I often wonder if Laura Palmer's last few days were better left to the Secret Diary of Laura Palmer and our imaginations rather than seeing her last days on film as there is no way that her last days would ever live up to anyone's expectations. Reading the book and experiencing he life in short mysterious glimpses through watching the Series (notably the Picnic Video) can;t be touched.

Surprisingly, it reminds me of when Star Wars, Episode 1 came out. The expectations were so high and for years, everyone had their idea of how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader and the amazing journey to the Darkside that would finally be realized on film, yet all three prequels seem to have polarized fans across the world and sparked debate similar (although on a significantly much larger scale) to FWWM.

That said, there was a lot that wasn't in the book or the Series that was absolutely amazing. The Pink Room scenes, the encounter with the One Armed Man, and the whole tying back the thread to Teresa Banks and the blackmail plot, again, absolutely brilliant.

I do agree with Charles in that the tone of the rest of the movie shifts quite far off the mark from the Pilot as well as the rest of the Twin Peaks Series minus maybe the last half of the final Episode. I find it very odd, especially since I have had a chance to speak with Ron Garcia, and when asking about what type of direction Lynch gave to the cinematography for FWWM, he was very firm that the only direction that kept being pushed during filming was that FWWM must live in the same world of the Pilot in both look and feel.

That said, Lynch could have easily shot the entire film in California as he did the Series but decided to use the same cinematographer with the specific instructions "I want this film to have the same look and feel as the Twin Peaks Pilot."

They started filming in September of 1991 in Washington and finished late October I believe with some on set shots at the Van Nuys set in California. Because of this, as Charles mentioned, many of the shots look like they were filmed in the Summertime versus in the Winter which is the setting for the Pilot which is supposed to happen days after FWWM takes place.

For years, this didn't pop up at me. I'll be honest, I've popped the New Line FWWM DVD in maybe two times since its release as I was waiting for the full Series to be released on DVD to do a full viewing back to back. It wasn't until a conversation with Charles that I actually noticed the comments on how out of place the shots looks being filmed in the Summertime. It got me to start thinking and finally I have come to the realization that I am sure it didn't always look like this. What do I mean? Well, let me try and explain.

On a hunch, I decided to dig out my old Japanese laserdisc of FWWM. I scanned to a clip of the RR Diner exterior and was quite surprised to see that the colors timing of the scene closely matched what was in my head from seeing it on the big screen. Here is a screencap:

Original Transfer from Theatrical Print in 1991 for Japanese Laserdisc Release

Japanese_Laserdisc_No_color_correction.JPG (48.05 KiB) Viewed 11546 times

Now, compare this to the screen capture below of the Pilot from the Gold box set:

Pilot RR Exterior shot in February

RR_no_color_correction_pilot.jpg (97.16 KiB) Viewed 11549 times

Looks pretty close to me. What I am trying to say is that I now believe that even though the film was shot in September, I'm now starting to question if maybe for the theatrical release maybe Lynch tried to compensate for this in the color timing. The cooler colors in the laserdisc reflect what I remember and what the transfer looked like taken off an original theatrical print of FWWM back in 1992.

More proof...

Second Sight UK DVD Transfer from Theatrical Print:

R0SecondSightDVDTransfer.JPG (52.09 KiB) Viewed 11448 times

For the New Line DVD transfer they went back to the original negative and re-timed all of the scenes which leaves us with shots that now firmly in my mind, have been altered in the New Line DVD to be different than the original color timing of the theatrical print.

Remastered New Line DVD Screenshot - AKA Sunny Day in Twin Peaks

Image2_dvdtransfer.jpg (88.17 KiB) Viewed 11549 times

Remastered MK2 DVD Screenshot - Same Sunny Day Feel

MK2Transfer.JPG (42.99 KiB) Viewed 11448 times

So in short, I am now calling bullshit on the New Line DVD transfer. I would pull up my MK2 disc if I could find it but even that one was re-timed for their release. Granted that Lynch supposedly re-timed the colors for the New Line release, it is possible that he did choose to change the colors or forgot the timing decisions he made back in 1991. Hell, even a few years after his Blue Velvet remix, he went on the record saying that he "didn't listen to it" which was his reason for redoing it a second time for the Lime Green Box.

To wrap this up, I just wanted to say that I think the new transfer of FWWM should take some of the blame on this one as comparing the two shots really are night and day in my eyes.

[charles]

I can't agree with you more, Dugpa. Especially about the first 33 minutes of FWWM. Exquisite! I've put together a comparison of some screen caps from the New Line DVD followed by some of my "color corrected" screen caps of the same shots. I also popped in some screen caps from the Pilot for reference of what it really looks like in the Pacific Northwest in February. God, wouldn't it be cool if they toned down the warmth for the next release of the film!?

Oh, one thing I noticed (because I'm a total crazy nerd) was that the photo you posted of the Double R exterior was from when the crew came back in April 1990 for more exterior shots. You can see the fresh buds of spring on some of the trees, unlike the totally barren winter shot from the pilot. And there's no RR on the sign. Kinda lazy that they didn't bother to put it back up there for the new shots.

[dugpa]

Thanks Charles. Also, on the shot of the RR, you are right. I posted a screnshot from a file which I now realize came from Episode 29. The more I think of it, the more I am convinced that the New Line transfer is seriously flawed. Great shots by the way.

I think that the MK2 disc is probably flawed as well as it was a transfer from the original negative as well and would not have captured any color timing changes that were done to the film back in 1991.

The more I look at the older transfers, the more I am thinking that the newer transfers are missing out on what I feel were conscious decisions to match the Pilot in look and feel through various color timing techniques.

I like you, hope that they reference the Pilot the next time the film is released or at least the theatrical prints.

Also, for those of you totally lost on what Charles and I are talking about, here is a decent wiki on Color timing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color-timing

[charles]

That screen cap is great! Where can one get their hands on that release? I'd love to see the whole film looking this way.

[missoulamt]

But no adjusted colours are going to get rid of the wig...

Checked out the trailer now. The part around 1:00 where the angel disappears. Pretty sad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw8dd0ODhuE

[dugpa]

That screen cap is great! Where can one get their hands on that release? I'd love to see the whole film looking this way.

This is the UK Region 0 DVD from Second Sight released in 2001.

fwwmukdvd.jpg (10.5 KiB) Viewed 11500 times

[Audrey Horne]

oh boy, charles. You just opened a whole big can of shit, huh?

My thoughts are pretty simple on it back in 1992. I didn't like it because it didn't have Audrey and Cooper in it.

When I saw it initially on opening day at the prime time showing there where only seven or so people in the audience... and some left! I didn't like the first part because I simply wanted to get to Twin Peaks... don't know why since I already knew Audrey wouldn't be there -nor Ben, Pete, and Catherine. I didn't get the appeal of seeing Laura Palmer alive since I thought she was supposed to be an extension of all the suspects. In the show, I thought all the activites she did were over the top and impossible to do in real life and it was kind of a wink to murder mysteries and how everyone was possibly guilty because she was associated -I almost expected Big Ed to even say, "Laura would spend Sundays after nine o'clock as a grease monkey in my garage." But I was fine with it when she was a phantom. In the movie, after an hour of her screaming and a performance at an eleven, I couldn't wait for her to finally die.

Over the years, after picking up countless Wrapped in Plastics and then the advent of the internet, I was so surprised how beloved Laura Palmer had become. ...including Lynch's obsession. Nothing wrong with it, I was just surprised... I just always found her more effective as a photo or creepy cameos in the Red Room. (And yes, I do love Sheryl Lee).

With repeated viewings, I do appreciate the film. I think it's very well made. The first half is first rate- Irene in the diner is outstanding. The music and score is fantastic. Laura still grates on my nerves -but I do like the Spinning in Space scene, and the Pink Room is really well done. But it's still impossible for me to watch it as a film and not separate it from the series (then again, I find the second half of the second season such a heartbreak too). And if I can view it as a single film about a girl facing abuse and addiction, well then I just don't care for the protagonist.

Again, it's just my opinion. I'm still glad it exists and offers more pieces to the What If puzzle and the possibility of other films in the series -the whole Judy question could have been pretty nifty. And I will always have the sound track close by.

And oh yeah, the wig!