Animation or Remake with Real Actors?

[NoiselessFan]

If given the option, which would you guys prefer? (Series still controlled by Lynch/Frost either way)

1) A high-end animated version of TP using renditions of original cast
2) A remake of series with real actors but a new cast

I thought I could answer this easily but the question raising more questions in myself than I expected.

[yvanehtnioj1214]

Option 1, but could it be an animated continuation of TP with at least some of the original cast doing the voices?

[NoiselessFan]

Yep, with option 1 it could be a continuation with actual actor voice-overs. And I'm not talking about some Scooby Doo type cartoon nonsense. I'm talking about some of the first-rate digital image processing techniques out there.

Check this out: http://www.phojoe.com/forensic_compositing.html

Ever since they first started colorizing films, I've wondered why we can't create virtual films from scratch. I've also been wondering if the same technology used in age progressions/regression could be used to create these virtual films. At some pt in the future, probably sooner than later, these techniques will be optimized to the pt where you could recreate any old actor you want and create a new film with him or her in it.

There's really no reason they can't do this now. The biggest barrier is the time it takes to create the image and the sheer number of images needed to create frames of synthesized movement that's organic or real-life-looking.

One day we'll be able to recreate a 21 yr old Paul Newman or a skinny Marlon Brando and create a new movie with them in it. They'll have to digitize every facial expression they ever showed and the movement of their mouth with each syllable and how they walk, etc. and store all this in a database, then create some algorithms to process new combinations to make this work. But it's very possible and just a matter of time before it's done.

Where new movements and body/facial inflections are needed, the original actor could doing posings to build up the database and close the "simulation gaps". TV and film will become timeless. We'll be able to recreate any old TV show we wish, from STAR TREK to TP and "shoot" new material with the same actors. Talk about cool.

And we'll be able to make some changes to them if need be. A little more weight loss here, a slightly bigger head there, maybe more muscle tone, straighter teeth.

The wardrobe would be completely controlled, so no more Donna sweaters even!

[NoiselessFan]

It's kind of like voice recognition software. You have to recite a preset paragraph into the system and based on this, it can pick up your syllables for new and unique speech you feed it. For this, the software would need to capture different facial expressions and words spoken and from this database of images, it could create new and unique combinations.

[dugpa]

The only problem I foresee is that I remember reading an article which talked about the next obstacle would be to accquire the rights to use the likeness of the actor. For instance, if you could make a CG Kyle MacLachlan, it would be based on his likeness and therefore he could potentially sue any motion picture company for using his likeness. I am guessing the original actors would have to be pai or if they were no longer alive, the heir to their estates would have to be compensated in some form.

Still though, it would be interesting to see.

-B

[NoiselessFan]

Yeah, I guess it wouldn't be as simple as randomly prowling old material and recreating folks. I figured the actors would just get paid like actors or paid royalties or whatever it is voice over actors are paid. You're calling it "CG"; is this what's officially called? Do you know more about this sort of thing? You know of anyone working on this type of technology?

[yvanehtnioj1214]

The only problem I foresee is that I remember reading an article which talked about the next obstacle would be to accquire the rights to use the likeness of the actor. For instance, if you could make a CG Kyle MacLachlan, it would be based on his likeness and therefore he could potentially sue any motion picture company for using his likeness. I am guessing the original actors would have to be pai or if they were no longer alive, the heir to their estates would have to be compensated in some form.

Still though, it would be interesting to see.

-B

That's true. As I recall, Crispin Glover sued the producers of Back to the Future II for using another actor for cheaper but then making him up to look like Crispin Glover. I think he won, too.

One day we'll be able to recreate a 21 yr old Paul Newman or a skinny Marlon Brando and create a new movie with them in it. They'll have to digitize every facial expression they ever showed and the movement of their mouth with each syllable and how they walk, etc. and store all this in a database, then create some algorithms to process new combinations to make this work. But it's very possible and just a matter of time before it's done.

That may be true, but I think it would be creepy, unfair to the actors and I think the audience would be able to tell. I remember at the Grammies a couple of years ago they had digital Frank Sinatra singing with Alicia Keys and it was just creepy. Same with Audrey Hepburn in those Gap commercials. It'll be a dark day in Hollywood when studios force actors to sign away their likenesses for an eternity.

I was thinking the animation could be almost along the lines you specified but more, well, animated. I think the type of animation they used in A Scanner Darkly would be perfect.

[NoiselessFan]

Dude, I'm not talking about stealing likenesses. The actor or the actor's estate would have to give consent and be paid fairly. The actor's voices would likely be used and the actor could be used for posing to capture the right movements/inflections. It's really just a way to make an old actor young again rather than retiring or outgrowing a role.

I'll check this A SCANNER DARKLY, never heard of it...

[NoiselessFan]

Yeah, see that movie's starting to get close - thumbs up.

Seems like the more real-life the animation the less creepy. Why do you think it'd be creepy to make this even more precise?

[Brad D]

if this had to be done, i would rather do the graphic novel, or the animation. anyone else playing BOB in a live remake is unforgivable.

[NoiselessFan]

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcZnJyda ... playnext=1

This is not bad at all. Oddly it seems more precise on closeups than far off. They called it rotoscoping for this film where they filmed it hastily with the real actors, disregarding makeup and lighting and what not, then created the animation based on it. I'd love to see the TP pilot rotoscoped just to see how it'd look.

Going forward, they could use the actual actors, who are too old now, and maybe during the rotoscoping modify it to make them younger. Or maybe they could use any actors who fit the general description and rework it when animating it. Not sure how much reshaping they can do but the process would certainly smooth out in yrs to come. This is very cool.

[yvanehtnioj1214]

Yeah, see that movie's starting to get close - thumbs up.

Seems like the more real-life the animation the less creepy. Why do you think it'd be creepy to make this even more precise?

Well, the creepiness stems mostly from those people being "resurrected" from death. Also, in some of the pictures you showed in the link you posted things like the eyes made it obvious some of those pictures were made digitally and were, therefore, creepy. In order to make that type of digital aging/de-aging look good you need a big budget like Benjamin Button did (in it they digitally aged Brad Pitt, in case you didn't see it). If they did animation similar to Darkly, however, it wouldn't look fake since it wouldn't exactly be live-action. Know what I mean?

And about rights to actors' likenesses, I don't think the estate always has the dead person's best interests in mind especially when a large sum of money is offered. I just don't happen to believe, for instance, that Audrey Hepburn always had an unrecognized passion for selling jeans that might be made through arguably immoral means. Plus, this may sound like I'm trying to be artsy, but acting isn't just something you can put into a computer. Yes, there have been powerful films with animated characters but I don't think BrandoTron2000 would be able to match real Brando's instinct or be particularly good for the other actors to play off of.

[yvanehtnioj1214]

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcZnJyda ... playnext=1

Yup. Underrated movie but an even better book.

[yvanehtnioj1214]

Rotoscope animation has also been employed in Charles Schwab commercials like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTsg9-JOogI

[NoiselessFan]

Well, the creepiness stems mostly from those people being "resurrected" from death. Also, in some of the pictures you showed in the link you posted things like the eyes made it obvious some of those pictures were made digitally and were, therefore, creepy. In order to make that type of digital aging/de-aging look good you need a big budget like Benjamin Button did (in it they digitally aged Brad Pitt, in case you didn't see it). If they did animation similar to Darkly, however, it wouldn't look fake since it wouldn't exactly be live-action. Know what I mean?

Yes, I see