Character vs. Character Development

[NoiselessFan]

In the real world, people aren't good or bad all the time, they're both some of the time. So on the morality scale no one sits on one end or the other or in any one place in between, we slide up and down depending on where we are, what we're doing and who with. We're all Rubik's Cubes with lots of sides and we twist into all kinds of different colors and kinds of people depending on how we feel and what pressure we're under, etc.

This is why good characters aren't black and white, they're shades of gray that flicker. Good people do some bad things and bad people do some good things. Good writing creates crossroads where right and wrong choices have consequences and the best characters keep you guessing what they'll do. Well-developed characters vary in which way they go and when they wobble we get drama and invest ourselves in them. The best characters remind us why we're human by pointing out our flaws, and they do this by flaunting their own.

The easiest way to tell if a character is well-developed is to watch how that character relates to the other characters. There should be a moral difference.

Take Tony Soprano in the SOPRANO's. He was the best-developed character I've ever seen on TV or otherwise because he was a different person with everyone around him. Who he was as a person, what he was willing to do, the choices he made, whether right or wrong, the regret he felt afterward, all depended on who he was dealing with and under what circumstances.

He was a different Tony around his therapist than he was around his wife, vs. his daughter, vs. his son, vs. his mob buds, vs. the dirty the cop he used, vs. black folks he did business with, vs. black folks who tried to date his daughter, vs. his best friend, vs. his ex-best friend's son, etc. All these different Tonys created one very complex Tony that felt real because that's how we all are, so we relate. The different sides to him gave him dimensions and texture, a different feel.

I'm totally different around my parents than I am with my brother, vs. my best friend, vs. my girlfriend, vs. my supervisor, vs. the cop who stops me for speeding, vs. some a-hole who blows his horn cuz I didn't let him cut in front of me in traffic, and so on.

TP characters are well-cast and likeable but they're mostly under developed from what I can see. They behave pretty much the same no matter what they're doing or who they're with. Cooper, Truman, Ed are always good, Hank, Leo and Ben are always bad. I'd like to have seen more variation in the characters in the way they make choices in different circumstances.

Examples:

1) Leo/Shelley -

When Shelley made fun of Leland diving on the coffin, it was great for her character. Little innocent, girl next door, wouldn't hurt a fly Shelley told a joke that was totally distasteful. It was totally out of character which added to her character. However, instead of telling the joke to 2 random old men, it would've been more valuable to show her tell the same joke to Leo, so for once we could've seen a lighter side to him, so we could get a little soft to go with all the hard he always gives us. Maybe he brings a little darkness out of her to tell jokes like that, maybe she brings a little light-headedness to him by making him laugh. It's too easy not to like Leo, so make us wonder if he's actually so bad after all. Make him more complicated. Maybe he was a better guy before Shelley started cheating on him. Maybe his best friend happens to be Ed, and maybe he's loyal to him and only to him, leaving us to guess why he gives this one guy a free pass on being treated with the disdain he treats everyone else with; i.e. how bad could he be if Ed liked him, since there'd have to be a reason he did. Let us see him struggle with doing some bad things, they seem to flow out of him with the ease of water from a leaky pipe. Maybe he has a soft spot for the Log Lady because it turns out she used to let him chew on bark from her pathetic log when he was a boy. Whatever. Anything, something to give him more sides so he's 3D instead of predictable.

2) Hank -

Same as Leo, too much of one thing. I want to see him without the dark shades. He'd still a villain overall but let's see him flip his collar the other way and let it be when we least expect it. I said it in another thread, but I think he should've developed a protectiveness over Shelley, maybe found out Leo had beaten her before he smacked Leo around - maybe this is why he knocked the crap out of him. Give him some mixed motivations to confuse us, an excuse for us to like him, even if for just a moment, then take it away with him doing something rotten 10 minutes later. Jerk us around with the suspense of whether he's coming around as a good guy or staying evil. Draw some limits on what he'll do, some lines that even he won't cross. Give him a code he follows. We may not agree with that code, probably won't, but we'll respect him for having one. In some ways, on some occasions, it'd force us to root for him, possibly even like him for 3 minutes at a time.

3) Cooper -

Okay, Coop needs to scew up more. Superman is cryptonite away from being totally boring as a hero, so cryptonite was created to create the chance he might not win all the time. Coop needs some cryptonite. He needs some uncertainty and insecurity, some reasons to second guess himself. He's too right too much of the time, never goes too far, never has to stop and say, "you know what, I was wrong." Of course he has no secrets. Actually I'd prefer that he answered Audrey's question with, "yes, I do, I'm human." That would've been the wrong answer for a someone perfect to give but the point is he shouldn't be perfect to begin with. The right answer was for him to be wrong, often, like the rest of us. It's in our seeing him struggle to be right that makes us root for him and feel bad when he falls short. Sure, we find out he fell in love with his partner's wife. That was excellent but not enough. We need more faults than that. Is there anyone who thought when he went to rescue Audrey there was any chance he wouldn't do it effortlessly, according to plan? I wanted to see something different in him. Maybe he's fidgety, impatient, jumps the gun a little in breaking into JACKS. Why? Because maybe the stakes are different for him in this case. Maybe he can't be cool and tick like a Rolex on this one. Maybe he's nervous, maybe Harry notices and wonders why. Let's see him sweat because he's in unchartered territory, rescuing someone he cares about, especially since he was unable to once before. Maybe as they make their approach, he asks Harry for advice on the best tactics, because he questions his own, because his personal investment in the outcome gives him doubts for once. I want to see cracks in his armor. It doesn't make him weak, in fact it reinforces all those things that make him strong. Maybe he's a little cold about Blackie being dead because maybe he's glad she died, because you know what, she tried to kill someone he cared for, so F*ck her. Maybe he's a little despondent after he rescues Audrey and Harry has to ask him something twice because maybe he's so relieved he's distracted, has to wind down. Maybe he simply needed a moment. I want to see him shake with anger, make a questionable call, be wrong and unwilling to admit it - like the rest of us. Maybe he doesn't mess with a high school girl but let's see him more tempted. Let's see him see her flirt with another guy and get edgy the rest of the day for no reason because he's angry at himself for being jealous. He shouldn't have to go into a room with red carpet everwhere to visit being wrong. We know Agent Cooper is Mr. Perfect. Fine. Now let's see what Dale is like.

4) Ben/Catherine -

Same issue with both, too evil, not enough other sides. Two extraordinary actors who bring incredible gravity but who don't ever catch us off guard. Yeah, Catherine was nice to Pete into Season 2. Not enough. This is too hot and cold. The door was closed in Season 1, then swung wide open in 2. I want to see all the different grades of motion of goodness and badness in between. They laid a nice seed for her to bond with Shelley when she saved her from the fire. Norma's a mother figure to Shelley already but a boring one since they're mirror images of goodness. I want contrast. Let's see Catherine, the bull, reach down and be kind to Shelley, the flower. Let's see Shelley develop a trust in the one woman in town no one trusts. Let's see Catherine snap at Pete, boss Josie around, then tenderly put a bandaid on Shelley's latest problem. If David & Co weren't pursuing Cooper and Audrey's relationship, then I'd rather see Audrey get mentored by Catherine than Ben. Leave the tension at home in place and aggravate it even more by having Audrey saddle up with one of Ben's on again/off again friend/adversaries. Add to this the chemistry of Catherine and Audrey having the same type of female power across generations and this is a more fertile mentor/mentee combination. And again, it adds to the pendulous dynamic between Ben and his daughter to boot. We've seen Ben disapprove of Johnny's outfit for the funeral, so let's see him love his son too. Maybe while he's plotting with Jerry to commit yet another crime and making fun of Leland's troubles in a childish way snickering with his brother, let's see him put an apron on Johnny and feed him some food, wiping his mouth in a way that's genuine. Sew some goodness directly into his bad moments to catch us off-guard and push us toward maybe liking him, if only a little. Characters acting differently toward other characters tells us everything about each character and makes them more real and more worth relating to, rooting for.

Audrey -

By far she is the most developed character, if not the only developed character. It's no wonder to me why she was one of if not the most popular on the show with the audience. You can say she's sexy and in danger all the time and hence popular to the viewing public, but to tell you the truth, Madchen Amick is just as impossibly pretty and was on the high wire, flirting with sure disaster, episode on end as well. But Shelley wasn't nearly as popular to watch, and one of the reasons why, if not the reason, lies in Fenn's acting. Depth of character is based on differences in interactions with other characters, and based on this, Audrey was the deepest on the show. The way she acted around girls her age was a elitist and condascending because they couldn't keep up with her, how she acted around boys her age like Bobby was flirty and dismissive because they bored her, how she acted around grown men like Battis was cruel and controlling because they were in her way, how she acted around her father was disrespectful and resentful, around Blackie, plotting but careful, around Johnny, loving and protective, around Leland and the Laura issue, suddenly compassionate, and around Cooper, totally obedient and defenseless. There is literally a different department of Audrey on display in each type of character interaction she had. This gave her the layers of an onion and made her fun to watch. She's sexy and smart but somehow insecure and throbs with a sadness that makes you wonder why and whether she'll survive. She seems self-destructive and the type to go after Mr. Wrong like guys like Leo, but she surprises us by throwing herself at the one guy who's actually a good guy. Go figure. We root for her in spite of the mischief she creates and the ease in which she lies and swindles because we approve of Cooper as her choice. We want her to get him because for once the troubled and trouble-making girl is going after something good for her, so she has our blessings. Compare all this to simple Shelley, who can't lie without an L forming on her forehead, who can't pull the trigger on a guy coming to kill her without closing her eyes, and it's no wonder everything boring in Shelley's predictability is exciting in Audrey's lack of it.

I could go on and on with what they could've done with Harry and Johnny and Norma and even the Log Lady, because the reach was there within the characters.

...

I'd love to see TP re-imagined as a series because there is so much room within the genius of the cast and characters within the show to show so much more, to build so many cool highways into the human mind. It sickens me how Season 2 became a revolving door of guest stars when they had so much work left undone with the core cast interacting to reveal itself.

[yvanehtnioj1214]

I disagree with you for the most part. For instance, Cooper has made mistakes like when he was protecting Caroline. Ben Horne showed a lot of vulnerability in the last episode and the scene where he was watching the groundbreaking of the Great Northern. There are plenty of examples of character development like this scattered throughout the series. The one thing I will say though, is that I would've liked to see a reason Shelly marries Leo.

[NoiselessFan]

In 32 hrs of TV show, Cooper, the lead character, made one mistake, a mistake that predated the series. Ben showed "vulnerability" in the last ep, meaning he showed nothing for the first 30+ hrs of show. This is the pt I was making. Thank you.

[yvanehtnioj1214]

In 32 hrs of TV show, Cooper, the lead character, made one mistake, a mistake that predated the series. Ben showed "vulnerability" in the last ep, meaning he showed nothing for the first 30+ hrs of show. This is the pt I was making. Thank you.

I don't think you read my entire post. Those were just some of the examples of character development, and even in the few examples I gave, I listed a moment where Ben Horne showed vulnerability before the last episode. More mistakes Cooper makes that come to mind include when he admits he underestimated Jacoby, when he thinks Leo did it for pretty much the entire season, when him and Truman almost die at One Eyed Jack's (but don't, thanks to Hawk) because he underestimates how hard it'll be to save Audrey. These are just some that I can think of immediately.

[Audrey Horne]

I'm loving your thoughts and ideas, and are so similar to my own.

But I disagree about Cooper -at least, like all the characters up until the post Maddy death episode. I like that Cooper is presented as this sort of white knight -forthright and impeccable -I mean, even his hair is impenetrable. In fact, I like this angle with the character a lot. And I think there are plenty of nice suitably subtle private moments that inidcate a fully realized character that has hints of grabbling with duality and personal issues. (The firing range -"someone who taught me the importance of an open heart." A surprising fact, "I don't like birds." The whole monologue after being shot while lying on the floor -"keeping fear from your mind." The private solitude of commenting on Audrey's disappearance -"can not think of clues, but only the content of her smile." - the whole Diane crutch is fascinating because does Diane even exist?) In any case, to me Cooper is a flawless character for this type of stylized fantasy world - again, in the first half of the series.

I actually don't have a problem with anyone during the first season -including Josie. The biggest almost-problems I had were with Maddy and Hank in terms of stylization and appearance -but it was fine. (I never felt they really knew what to do with Maddy and she only began to come together the episode before she was killed.)

I don't know why, but I always loved Shelly making the joke to the two random patrons regarding Laura's funeral. it was a simple moment and yet spoke volumes of small town life -and just human nature. I also liked the allowing of Shelly not to be the brightest bulb -love the moment she is confused when Cooper lets her off practically scott free in testifying against Leo. Honestly, I don't need to know or see a reason why she married Leo - "hot guy with a flashy car" is enough exposition for me and I like it.

This is afterall a soap opera, pot boiler -and I don't mind certain charaters staying within that box (Ben, Catherine, Leo) -in terms of story and writing. I think it's the actors' nuances that make it richer.

this is a rambling post -and I've lost the point.

[NoiselessFan]

I don't think you read my entire post. Those were just some of the examples of character development, and even in the few examples I gave, I listed a moment where Ben Horne showed vulnerability before the last episode. More mistakes Cooper makes that come to mind include when he admits he underestimated Jacoby, when he thinks Leo did it for pretty much the entire season, when him and Truman almost die at One Eyed Jack's (but don't, thanks to Hawk) because he underestimates how hard it'll be to save Audrey. These are just some that I can think of immediately.

Sorry, I should've made it clearer I read your entire post, because I did. I don't think you're following what I mean by character development. Making mistakes is just the tip of the iceberg. Real character development comes from unique relationships and revealing different sides of the persona thru those relationships.

A character making some miscalculations is not character development. Development comes from errors in judgment and moral dilemma, making the wrong choices on basic issues of right and wrong. Thru interaction with other characters, each character should have different capabilities and different boundaries.

The easiest way to test a character's development is to ask yourself a simple question: If this character was put in a new situation you haven't seen them in, how easily could you predict what they'd do? If you can tell immediately, the character is poorly developed because this character is far too predictable.

Cooper, as one example, was poorly developed not because he didn't make enough sleuthing errors (although this is part of it), he's poorly developed because he's entirely too predictable. We know how he will treat everyone he comes in contact with, we know he will always do the right thing, will never get short-tempered and mistreat someone, will never get jealous, will never do anything we might take moral issue with. No one is this clean.

Leo and Hank will always do the wrong thing. No matter what position they're in or what the stakes are, they will do wrong. This is too predictable. Truman always did the right thing. Ben and Catherine always do wrong. Wheeler always did right. On and on and on it's predictability across characters. There isn't enough iinconsistency in behavior, not enough hyprocrisy, and this is the core of human nature.

Audrey, as the one exception, had a great deal of "float" to her decisions. She could lie, cheat, steal when interacting with her father but would never ever do any of these things around Cooper or Johnny, and probably not with Bobby either (though she will manipulate in less abusive ways). She's clearly cruel if not downright evil when dealing with Battis, as she not only forced him to do what she wanted but had to rub it in even further by making him address her as "Ms. Horne." Then she turns her head in the most dismissive, condascending way imaginable. That ruthlessness only came out some of the time and many watching her would not approve of this. Other things, like her compassion for Johnny and her bursts of tears when she sees Leland dancing are moments of thoughtfullness that redeem her. Her character's all over the place and that's what makes her compelling.

It's important for good characters to do some objectionable things to bring out their humanity and some bad characters to do some commendable things. The characters on TP are mostly flat, where they were all good or all bad, from Cooper on down the line.

[NoiselessFan]

I'm loving your thoughts and ideas, and are so similar to my own.

But I disagree about Cooper -at least, like all the characters up until the post Maddy death episode. I like that Cooper is presented as this sort of white knight -forthright and impeccable -I mean, even his hair is impenetrable. In fact, I like this angle with the character a lot. And I think there are plenty of nice suitably subtle private moments that inidcate a fully realized character that has hints of grabbling with duality and personal issues. (The firing range -"someone who taught me the importance of an open heart." A surprising fact, "I don't like birds." The whole monologue after being shot while lying on the floor -"keeping fear from your mind." The private solitude of commenting on Audrey's disappearance -"can not think of clues, but only the content of her smile." - the whole Diane crutch is fascinating because does Diane even exist?) In any case, to me Cooper is a flawless character for this type of stylized fantasy world - again, in the first half of the series.

I actually don't have a problem with anyone during the first season -including Josie. The biggest almost-problems I had were with Maddy and Hank in terms of stylization and appearance -but it was fine. (I never felt they really knew what to do with Maddy and she only began to come together the episode before she was killed.)

I don't know why, but I always loved Shelly making the joke to the two random patrons regarding Laura's funeral. it was a simple moment and yet spoke volumes of small town life -and just human nature. I also liked the allowing of Shelly not to be the brightest bulb -love the moment she is confused when Cooper lets her off practically scott free in testifying against Leo. Honestly, I don't need to know or see a reason why she married Leo - "hot guy with a flashy car" is enough exposition for me and I like it.

This is afterall a soap opera, pot boiler -and I don't mind certain charaters staying within that box (Ben, Catherine, Leo) -in terms of story and writing. I think it's the actors' nuances that make it richer.

this is a rambling post -and I've lost the point.

I should point out that character development is just one part of a TV show, which must be the case since 99.9% of TV shows lack character development, particularly around the time of TP, and yet there are still excellent TV shows throughout history.

I'm not sure if you watch DAMAGES but the character played by Glenn Close is unbelievably well-developed. She is so complex and motivated by so many different internal codes that her behavior is totally unpredictable, which creates tension and interest because we simply don't know what she'll do when the next dilemma comes up. Next to Soprano, she's the richest character I've seen on TV.

Your pt about this being a fantasy world is interesting. If you prefer a world, a fantasy world, where you have satirical type characters who represent extremes, okay. Perhaps this clears Cooper from the responsibility of making moral errors, but to make this work on the show, all the other characters would need to carry the normal flaws to distinguish Cooper as this surrealistic White Knight who is different from the rest. Developing everyone else properly would "bring out" the extremity of Cooper being different and could make him more compelling as we wait for his armor to one day finally crack.

My motivation for pointing out any flaws in TP is my desire to see the show re-imagined. Shows aren't brought back to redo what they already did, or to simply make a few storyline shifts that core fans want to see. To get a show remade, you have to propose drastic change to the original from a procedural pt of vew, and this requires finding underdeveloped areas. Character development, in my opinion, is one such crack in the armor.

I also think the show could be remade even darker than the original, which was impossible at the time given the culture of TV and the limitations of network range. In present day, on an unrestricted cable channel, TP could be lowered to a darker level to impose the good vs. evil construct onto the audience in a purer form.

If we don't see a reason to redo anything better, we'll be stuck with reruns forever. I'm not content with this.

[yvanehtnioj1214]

I also think the show could be remade even darker than the original, which was impossible at the time given the culture of TV and the limitations of network range. In present day, on an unrestricted cable channel, TP could be lowered to a darker level to impose the good vs. evil construct onto the audience in a purer form.

I understand what you're saying, but I feel that this darker tone was touched on in FWWM pretty considerably. I think if the TV show was, as a whole, as dark as FWWM it'd be too depressing.

[NoiselessFan]

I can see now I'm going to break down soon and watch FWWM, though I don't want to.

[Audrey Horne]

I don't know if my use of the word fantasy is correct. But to me the show works on so many levels of a heightened stylized reality paying homage to vintage films and taking so many genres and throwing them expertly into a blender before serving.

But in terms of the soap element -which was the hook to keep bringing people in week after week- I was always fine with the extreme characters of Ben, Catherine, even Leo (although he was painted into a corner with no options). To me, I was fine with just the nuances that Beymer and Laurie brought to the table. Again, I'm only talking about the first half of the series. I always had the sense that Catherine loved Pete no matter how horrible she treated him- her appearance to him in the dark as Tajamoura and kissing him is indicative that she had a soft spot for not letting him think she was dead; Ben's reverie with Jerry imagining Louise Dunbrowski showed a still open heart

And again, I can't find a false note for Cooper in the first half of the series -until the Roadhouse solving of the mystery. Yes, he is presented as infaliable but for some reason the hurdles are rising and there's the hint that a real challenge -a personal challenge is coming that he won't be ready for -and that he isn't sharing everything with the audience. Twin Peaks worked best for me as the duality burried in all of us- and I guess the building of Cooper was fine to me because we just never got to the full on reveal of him yet- at least where I choose to end the series and before the rather pedestrian backstory writing came about. But there are wonderful moments that hint that Cooper is far from perfect and loses his cool- (the sudden outburst to Nancy to "shut up" while rescuing Audrey is quite unexpected and right on the money -as well as Truman having to reassure him that he did the right thing, "Just sometimes you think too much."

It was all working for me.

If one thing that felt forced -athough I get it in theory -was Donna's lame transformation in the second series premiere.

You're right on the money though about the Audrey character- I think she works until the phonecall scene while Ben is going Civil War crazy.

[NoiselessFan]

I don't know if my use of the word fantasy is correct. But to me the show works on so many levels of a heightened stylized reality paying homage to vintage films and taking so many genres and throwing them expertly into a blender before serving.

But in terms of the soap element -which was the hook to keep bringing people in week after week- I was always fine with the extreme characters of Ben, Catherine, even Leo (although he was painted into a corner with no options). To me, I was fine with just the nuances that Beymer and Laurie brought to the table. Again, I'm only talking about the first half of the series. I always had the sense that Catherine loved Pete no matter how horrible she treated him- her appearance to him in the dark as Tajamoura and kissing him is indicative that she had a soft spot for not letting him think she was dead; Ben's reverie with Jerry imagining Louise Dunbrowski showed a still open heart

And again, I can't find a false note for Cooper in the first half of the series -until the Roadhouse solving of the mystery. Yes, he is presented as infaliable but for some reason the hurdles are rising and there's the hint that a real challenge -a personal challenge is coming that he won't be ready for -and that he isn't sharing everything with the audience. Twin Peaks worked best for me as the duality burried in all of us- and I guess the building of Cooper was fine to me because we just never got to the full on reveal of him yet- at least where I choose to end the series and before the rather pedestrian backstory writing came about. But there are wonderful moments that hint that Cooper is far from perfect and loses his cool- (the sudden outburst to Nancy to "shut up" while rescuing Audrey is quite unexpected and right on the money -as well as Truman having to reassure him that he did the right thing, "Just sometimes you think too much."

It was all working for me.

If one thing that felt forced -athough I get it in theory -was Donna's lame transformation in the second series premiere.

You're right on the money though about the Audrey character- I think she works until the phonecall scene while Ben is going Civil War crazy.

I will say this. There is no lack of development of any character getting in the way of this being my favorite show of all time, even with the horrendous 2nd season.

Audrey is well-developed because she's conflicted and although she always has her reasons that make sense to her, she slides around the morality scale, and sometimes we agree with her reasons, sometimes not. We go back in forth accepting, sometimes praising and then scolding her - thus she's as variable as a violin and a fascinating character.

If you agree with this, how then can every other character get a free pass on having any moral conflict at all?

Let's look at it this way. Audrey works for both questions below, as she should. What about the other main characters:

1) Name me decisions that any of the following characters made that you found morally objectionable or even questionable?

Cooper (Mrs. Early notwithstanding) -
Truman -
James -
Donna -
Andy -
Wheeler -
Log Lady -

2) Name me decisions that any of the following characters made that you found morally commendable?

Ben -
Catherine -
Hank -
Leo -
Ben -

...


Unlike Audrey, I have a hard time assigning moral dilemma to any of these characters. Because of this, none of the above characters ever surprise us. We always know precisely what side of the moral law they will fall on. You don't agree?

[Audrey Horne]

Fun!

And I agree -although it doesn't take me out of the world or diminish the characters in the first half.

I'll take Wheeler out of the equation -because frankly he and Annie were fillers representing an expediated version of Cooper and Audrey without the time for developed subtext -no time for their respective love interests to mine through their feelings for the other at this critical stage -just introduced perfectly and whamo instant love. Horrific.

Truman -none. And I guess it's because he's a True Man. And I forget what happens now in the series after Maddie versus my reimagining it. But perhaps the love for Josie and finding out more and more of her duplicitous nature weighed against his proper law enforcement. Love against what is morally correct. It never got this developed but the potential was there followed by the descent in alcoholism to cope- again, never explored correctly but would have been great.

James -yeah, yeah. But he is having a secret affair with Laura. Makes out with Donna when she is Mike apologizing, "I'm sorry -no, I'm not. I'm not sorry." Gives his lips freely to Maddie; doesn't have strong resolve. Gets angry about his mother; likes to knock over Leland's furniture. Circumvents the law with Donna in investigating Jacoby -along with breaking and entering his home.

Donna -prone to jealousy and bad sweaters. Sneaks out of house in middle of night; jealous of Laura's strenght -yells at dead people's graves; impetuous with Harold's life; is adament to James and Audrey about conducting their detective work privately.

Andy -none. Jealousy? But not needed. He should be a fairly constant in the world harping back to Andy Griffith's world.

And Cooper -up to the point where I consider the series whole -has hints of struggles. Frustration -"He's too stupid to lie!" "Shut up!!!" (to Nancy); smiling to himself sniffing Audrey's perfumed letter; stolen look to Audrey at the funeral; the bedroom scene with Audrey; his anger with himself about jeopardizing Truman and Audrey at One-Eyed Jacks; the hint of controlled fire in the shooting range in reference to a past love (I'm sure well before Caroline or Windom were thought of). I'm still not sure if Cooper needs more at this stage -to me, there was something also brewing underneath him that could explode. And his struggle should always be internal and subtle. To a degree, we are with him on the journey, and should be a somewhat constant.

Ben, Catherine, Leo, Hank- yeah, it's subtle. But to me none of them (well, Ben and Catherine aren't two dimmensional badies).

Catherine has an insecurity that Laurie plays so well -a need for validation of her attractiveness and desire from Ben. The scene with Shelly in the mill is wonderful because to me, Catherine is not without compassion -just has a hard time expressing it. Her talk with Pete in the first season finale -while manipuative- also hints as the sweetness and tenderness the two once shared.

Ben trully grieves when pressed by Audrey about Laura -"I loved her." It's a horrific moment but one that doesn't ring true. He even seems desperate, lost. It's enough for me to know this man has many layers no matter how twisted it may be. Jerry even echoes this -"Oh Ben, what has become of us?"

Hank has moments that seem true with Norma -charming actually, in the first season finale at the diner. And truman alludes to Hank being a good friend and a bookhouse boy. it's enough for me to make him developed. i don't need to see more.

Leo- man, I know guys like Leo. And any compassion he displays would be in the most private. He's humanized when Shellly observes him with Hayward in the hospital -"I guess he's kinda in prison already." Also, after being shot, there's a wonderful moment of reflection by DaRe. Obvious the writers had plans for the duality when he's with earle -but again, I can't even think about those scenes or stage of the show.

[Audrey Horne]

And in regards to Audrey -the character is absolutely wonderfully written and developed, sure.

But in terms of surprising us in which side of morality she will fall on -it becomes pretty clear after the crying at Leland and the madness of the town, that she is an innocent.

Her scheming is always against those that deserve it- always a cog to those attempting to do something illicit (Ben and the Norwegians raping the land; Battis and Blackie recruiting underage girls into prostitution; Bobby attmepting to blackmail Ben and leading to stealing evidence of Renault to exonnorate Cooper. Her tactics are always fun and surprising but the viewer begins to feel safe and secure that the end result is in the vein of acheiving good. It's just the surprise of how she'll do it.

[NoiselessFan]

Fun!

And I agree -although it doesn't take me out of the world or diminish the characters in the first half.

I'll take Wheeler out of the equation -because frankly he and Annie were fillers representing an expediated version of Cooper and Audrey without the time for developed subtext -no time for their respective love interests to mine through their feelings for the other at this critical stage -just introduced perfectly and whamo instant love. Horrific.

Truman -none. And I guess it's because he's a True Man. And I forget what happens now in the series after Maddie versus my reimagining it. But perhaps the love for Josie and finding out more and more of her duplicitous nature weighed against his proper law enforcement. Love against what is morally correct. It never got this developed but the potential was there followed by the descent in alcoholism to cope- again, never explored correctly but would have been great.

James -yeah, yeah. But he is having a secret affair with Laura. Makes out with Donna when she is Mike apologizing, "I'm sorry -no, I'm not. I'm not sorry." Gives his lips freely to Maddie; doesn't have strong resolve. Gets angry about his mother; likes to knock over Leland's furniture. Circumvents the law with Donna in investigating Jacoby -along with breaking and entering his home.

Donna -prone to jealousy and bad sweaters. Sneaks out of house in middle of night; jealous of Laura's strenght -yells at dead people's graves; impetuous with Harold's life; is adament to James and Audrey about conducting their detective work privately.

Andy -none. Jealousy? But not needed. He should be a fairly constant in the world harping back to Andy Griffith's world.

And Cooper -up to the point where I consider the series whole -has hints of struggles. Frustration -"He's too stupid to lie!" "Shut up!!!" (to Nancy); smiling to himself sniffing Audrey's perfumed letter; stolen look to Audrey at the funeral; the bedroom scene with Audrey; his anger with himself about jeopardizing Truman and Audrey at One-Eyed Jacks; the hint of controlled fire in the shooting range in reference to a past love (I'm sure well before Caroline or Windom were thought of). I'm still not sure if Cooper needs more at this stage -to me, there was something also brewing underneath him that could explode. And his struggle should always be internal and subtle. To a degree, we are with him on the journey, and should be a somewhat constant.

Ben, Catherine, Leo, Hank- yeah, it's subtle. But to me none of them (well, Ben and Catherine aren't two dimmensional badies).

Catherine has an insecurity that Laurie plays so well -a need for validation of her attractiveness and desire from Ben. The scene with Shelly in the mill is wonderful because to me, Catherine is not without compassion -just has a hard time expressing it. Her talk with Pete in the first season finale -while manipuative- also hints as the sweetness and tenderness the two once shared.

Ben trully grieves when pressed by Audrey about Laura -"I loved her." It's a horrific moment but one that doesn't ring true. He even seems desperate, lost. It's enough for me to know this man has many layers no matter how twisted it may be. Jerry even echoes this -"Oh Ben, what has become of us?"

Hank has moments that seem true with Norma -charming actually, in the first season finale at the diner. And truman alludes to Hank being a good friend and a bookhouse boy. it's enough for me to make him developed. i don't need to see more.

Leo- man, I know guys like Leo. And any compassion he displays would be in the most private. He's humanized when Shellly observes him with Hayward in the hospital -"I guess he's kinda in prison already." Also, after being shot, there's a wonderful moment of reflection by DaRe. Obvious the writers had plans for the duality when he's with earle -but again, I can't even think about those scenes or stage of the show.

Wheeler out - Ok, fair enough
Truman - we agree

James - having a secret affair with Laura)
James - Makes out with Donna ) - hmm, combined I agree this is objectionable
James - Gives his lips freely to Maddie )

Donna - prone to jealousy and bad sweaters - true on both counts
Donna - Sneaks out of house in middle of night - mischievous, hmm, ok objectionable
Donna - jealous of Laura's strength - definitely objectionable
Donna - yells at dead people's graves - objectionable
Donna - impetuous with Harold's life - (and she used him) - objectionable
Donna - adamant about conducting their detective work privately - ??? not sure what you mean

Andy - yep, probably too dumb to be worth developing, nothing he does is credible

Cooper - has hints of struggles - not objectionable (cmon, miss)
Cooper - Frustration -"He's too stupid to lie!" - ok, objectionable
Cooper - "Shut up!!!" (to Nancy) -
Cooper - smiling to himself sniffing Audrey's perfumed letter - could be interpreted innocently but ok, objectionable
Cooper - stolen look to Audrey at the funeral - seemed innocent to me, though possibly
Cooper - the bedroom scene with Audrey - cmon, nothing objectionable here
Cooper - his anger with himself about jeopardizing Truman/Audrey - not objectionable
Cooper - the hint of controlled fire in the shooting range - not objectionable

Leo, Hank - yep, flat as pancakes

Catherine - a need for validation of her attractiveness from Ben - not commendable, but a weakness, yes
Catherine - The scene with Shelly in the mill - hmm, yeah, ok, maybe commendable
Catherine - Her talk with Pete in the first season finale - yep, commendable

Ben - trully grieves when pressed by Audrey about Laura -"I loved her." - yep, commendable, in a sick way
Ben - Jerry even echoes this -"Oh Ben, what has become of us?" - I was confused by this

Hank - has moments that seem true with Norma - they all seemed means to an end to me Hank - truman alludes to Hank being a good friend and a bookhouse boy - yep, commendable

Leo - He's humanized when Shellly observes him in hospital -"I guess he's kinda in prison already." - hmm, not sure that's development

[NoiselessFan]

And in regards to Audrey -the character is absolutely wonderfully written and developed, sure.

But in terms of surprising us in which side of morality she will fall on -it becomes pretty clear after the crying at Leland and the madness of the town, that she is an innocent.

Her scheming is always against those that deserve it- always a cog to those attempting to do something illicit (Ben and the Norwegians raping the land; Battis and Blackie recruiting underage girls into prostitution; Bobby attmepting to blackmail Ben and leading to stealing evidence of Renault to exonnorate Cooper. Her tactics are always fun and surprising but the viewer begins to feel safe and secure that the end result is in the vein of acheiving good. It's just the surprise of how she'll do it.

Yes, I agree her motivations are consistently good. She's just the closest thing to unpredictable in the show. Everyone else, while they may have a few blips of behavior here or there, are totally predictable to me, in all moral situations.

With Audrey I was surprised when she cried seeing Leland. I figured she'd laugh, so she got me there. I was also wondering if her tactics to get Cooper would escalate later and entering more of a scheming mode. They never did but I thought they might, so I felt that made her future course a bit unpredictable. Other than that, yeah, she could be read fairly easily.