No Ray Wise?

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Soolsma
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by Soolsma »

And that they couldn't use Bowie's original voice recording in the FWWM throwback. Good thing that voice actor did a heck of a job.
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Mordeen
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by Mordeen »

Fair enough, but the circumstances still warranted a drastic change in the scope of his character.

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mtwentz
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by mtwentz »

Mordeen wrote:Fair enough, but the circumstances still warranted a drastic change in the scope of his character.

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Mr. Strawberry
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by Mr. Strawberry »

Yep, I'm with mtwentz on this one.

Jeffries was a footnote in the story, albeit a shockingly surreal and bizarre one. So this notion of holding onto Jeffries is not something that I can understand. Seems it was more about Bowie than anything else, which is fine, people have feelings and those feelings dictate many decisions and thoughts. It's what at least one person felt was important, so good for them.

Personally, I feel like they jumped through a bunch of hoops to retain a pivotal role for Jeffries when other routes would have been more natural, such as designating Philip Gerard or Chet Desmond as the person trying to take down Mr. C.

(Or were they trying to help Cooper? I'm so confused by it all.)
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by baxter »

I like these ideas, but Jeffries still feels more relevant to the story to me. If it was Chet Desmond who had uttered "we live inside a dream" in FWWM, it would work, but he didn't. With Jeffries in FWWM, we see the confusion of interdimensional travel from the outside (from Cooper's and Cole's perspective). In S3, we see it, or at least feel it, from the inside, with the craziness of Cooper's superimposed face. This makes it better for Jeffries to be the figure that Cooper is interacting with, since it connects to what we have previously seen.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by Mordeen »

MJA's meltdown had arguably the largest overall impact. The number of scenes The Arm had in the story was reduced by at least half with a few of them outside of the Lodge. Lynch was even willing to work with him despite his outrageous statements online, but he asked for a ridiculous amount of money and wouldn't budge, so that was that. Lynch turned him into chewing gum stuck on a tree branch, turned Jeffries into a teapot, Major Briggs into a floating head, and Audrey into a completely irrelevant bitch. And only one of those people actually worked on the show. Things that make you go hmmmm.....

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krishnanspace
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by krishnanspace »

Mordeen wrote:MJA's meltdown had arguably the largest overall impact. The number of scenes The Arm had in the story was reduced by at least half with a few of them outside of the Lodge. Lynch was even willing to work with him despite his outrageous statements online, but he asked for a ridiculous amount of money and wouldn't budge, so that was that. Lynch turned him into chewing gum stuck on a tree branch, turned Jeffries into a teapot, Major Briggs into a floating head, and Audrey into a completely irrelevant bitch. And only one of those people actually worked on the show. Things that make you go hmmmm.....

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So we're all the plot points changed because of how things went on behind the scenes?
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by mtwentz »

I thought I heard that Sherilyn did not like the scenes originally planned for her, and Lynch re-wrote her role (without Frost) to get the Charlie scenes, and she was much happier with those Charlie scenes than her original scripted scenes.

From what MJA wrote on FB, sounds like he was looking for millions, comparing himself to Mini-Me actor Verne Troyer.
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Mordeen
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by Mordeen »

krishnanspace wrote: So we're all the plot points changed because of how things went on behind the scenes?
No. Much was shot as written.

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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by Mordeen »

mtwentz wrote:I thought I heard that Sherilyn did not like the scenes originally planned for her, and Lynch re-wrote her role (without Frost) to get the Charlie scenes, and she was much happier with those Charlie scenes than her original scripted scenes.
That's the public story.
mtwentz wrote:From what MJA wrote on FB, sounds like he was looking for millions, comparing himself to Mini-Me actor Verne Troyer.
Correct.

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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by bosguy1981 »

Mordeen wrote:Getting back on point, I think what's more disheartening is the reduced roles of those whom were on board who were so critical to Cooper's dreamscape: Laura, Sarah, Leland, Audrey, et al. Those were the creative decisions that still have me baffled.

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Fascinating! Can you reveal anything else about this, Mordeen? I know you previously mentioned Leland having more in the original plans. What about Sarah, Laura, and Audrey? I wonder if anybody other than Kyle (who read the full script) is even aware of some of these original plans for the actors that got scrapped.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by Cappy »

I personally feel like we got just enough Sarah Palmer. Obviously more would have been great, but the four or so scenes she was in count among S3's best. Her biting the guy's neck off in the bar, her meltdown in the grocery store, her watching National Geographic as her eyes slower get bigger, her melting down and attacking Laura's picture. She might be the "big bad" of S3 (or the whole series?), but I feel like keeping her largely off camera made her almost something of a presence that loomed over the rest of the season. She doesn't actually appear in the last episode, but every time I watch the show's final moments a part of me feels nervous that Grace Zabriskie is going to run out the front door and stick her crazy face right in front of the camera (a la that jump scare moment with Laura Dern in Inland Empire). Lynch just presented Sarah as being that spooky.

Perhaps if we had seen anymore of her, we might have grown less scared of her (kinda like BOB, perhaps?). I would be really curious to hear Frost's reflections on how he and Lynch came to the decisions they did about Sarah in the last season. I'd love to hear Lynch's too, but that probably won't happen.

I really liked the workaround for MJA's absence. It was a weird surprise where we would've otherwise gotten a re-hash of something we had already seen. I mean obviously I wish MJA was in good health and could've participated, but as far a workarounds for absent/deceased cast members, this might've been the best. I also remember an interview with MJA from around 2010-ish or so, where he expressed doubt that his character could be effective in a potential Twin Peaks revival, as when he first appeared on-screen (in ep. 2) it was weird and un-anticipated, whereas now viewers would likely react to seeing him with too much of warm familiarity. I think I might agree with him on that point, although I still wish he could've been involved somehow.
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N. Needleman
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by N. Needleman »

I've never seen or heard anything legit indicating those roles were cut down from what was originally intended. And I heard a lot I didn't talk about.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by LateReg »

baxter wrote:I like these ideas, but Jeffries still feels more relevant to the story to me. If it was Chet Desmond who had uttered "we live inside a dream" in FWWM, it would work, but he didn't. With Jeffries in FWWM, we see the confusion of interdimensional travel from the outside (from Cooper's and Cole's perspective). In S3, we see it, or at least feel it, from the inside, with the craziness of Cooper's superimposed face. This makes it better for Jeffries to be the figure that Cooper is interacting with, since it connects to what we have previously seen.
This. He makes more sense than Chet Desmond in almost every way. The Judy connection being another of them.

I also think you can't discount the plans that Lynch may have had for certain characters had he got to make more films back in the 90s. Just because we only saw Bowie in a minor role in FWWM doesn't mean he wasn't intended to play a larger role in future projects. Indeed, I would say that such a small role is some kind of proof that he was supposed to be a more major character down the line.

As far as the Bowie tin machine, I have no problem with it. That smoke is beautiful. It's mysterious, far better than recreating him with typical CGI, and the role is significant. I think that much of the disappointment people may feel is a result of holding out hope that, after 14 plus hours, Bowie would actually appear, having secretly filmed with Lynch. I felt that, anyway, and obviously would have preferred that to what we got. But what we got was bewitching and wholly strange and unpredictable.
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Cappy
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Post by Cappy »

LateReg wrote: As far as the Bowie tin machine, I have no problem with it. That smoke is beautiful. It's mysterious, far better than recreating him with typical CGI, and the role is significant. I think that much of the disappointment people may feel is a result of holding out hope that, after 14 plus hours, Bowie would actually appear, having secretly filmed with Lynch. I felt that, anyway, and obviously would have preferred that to what we got. But what we got was bewitching and wholly strange and unpredictable.
Agreed... In the projection room of The Fireman's House, isn't there a storage room off to the side containing multiple Bowie tin machine things? I think this shows up for a couple of seconds in ep. 8 or 17, can't remember which.
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