[Spoilers] Remember 430... Richard and Linda

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claaa7
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[Spoilers] Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:16 am

Two birds with one stone... Listen to the sounds.

It's in our house now (It is?). You are far away..



wow episode 18 must be the most mystifying episodes of television ever created. i'm a sucker for atmosphere, mystery and surrealism so i liked it a lot better than episode 17 with the Green Glove fuck. but everything that connected back to The Fireman / Giant / ???????'s speech in the very intro sure has me scratching my head. are we to assume that Richard Horne has nothing to do with the mention of "Richard and Linda", despite him being fried on a big stone.. was that just a red herring?

so after Cooper and Diane had driven for 430 miles (throughout the same desert Mister C drove when he flipped over) Cooper goes out, check the electrical wires around and sees that the 6 trailer trout park pole is there (i remember this right?). he then says that they really are at the right place (confirming by listening to the sounds before returning) and it's then implied that continuing from here will make them "cross over" (in Diane's words) which they do (implied by the sky turning black into night). it seems they here cross over into being Richard and Linda as the next time we hear Diane adress Cooper it is as Richard (in the letter which she signs / Linda).. in this dimension that they have crossed over to Laura Palmer's lookalike is working at Judy's Diner.

let's discuss and analyse this
Last edited by claaa7 on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
claaa7
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Re: Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:18 am

remember that "Lost Highway", "Mulholland Drive" and "Inland Empire" all seems absolutely incomprehensible on first viewing but once you get certain keys most of them makes complete sense. i'm sure there's a lot to unpack in the last episode here.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:22 am

I'm trying to figure out why the hell the Fireman told him to do that. Unless it was a warning against his intentions, and Cooper - just as he did with the ring in FWWM - misunderstood.
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Cipher
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Re: Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby Cipher » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:39 am

N. Needleman wrote:I'm trying to figure out why the hell the Fireman told him to do that. Unless it was a warning against his intentions, and Cooper - just as he did with the ring in FWWM - misunderstood.

Either that or the Fireman really did have designs on getting Laura to wake up in an alternate timeline, whatever they may be and at Cooper's expense. (I'm not sure it would matter, as most of the lodge entities' motivations are beyond the scope of the series.)
claaa7
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Re: Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:42 am

N. Needleman wrote:I'm trying to figure out why the hell the Fireman told him to do that. Unless it was a warning against his intentions, and Cooper - just as he did with the ring in FWWM - misunderstood.


perhaps The Fireman was a malevolent force all along? Fire has always been associated with black magic, strong dark forces in the world of Twin Peaks and in Lynch universes and he's the actual Fireman.. he was also the one who sent Mister C right to the sherrif's office.

it would of course go against what we saw in episode 8 with his reaction to BOB, etc., but it would give some credence to why we saw the frogmoth thing hatch in connection with the Laura Palmer image orb being sent to earth while also being connected to the murderous Woodsman.

i'm just spitballing ideas here though, my gut says The Fireman is with the forces of good here
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Novalis
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Re: Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby Novalis » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:51 am

claaa7 wrote:Two birds with one stone... Listen to the sounds.

It's in our house now (It is?). You are far away..

[...]

let's discuss and analyse this


I want to say something about the reveal of 'who' Richard and Linda 'are' is not necessarily a process of elimination. I think Lynch works in an additive way: a phrase or word doesn't always mean this OR that, it means this AND that (AND this, AND this... ad infinitum). The fact we had Richard Horne electrocuted on a stone and that someone living in Carl's Fat Trout trailers is called Linda might seem like 'red herrings' once we hear Cooper reading the note Diane left him in the motel, if we're approaching this as a detective eliminating leads, but if the finale teaches us anything it seems to be that this kind of methodology doesn't wash. I think nothing is truly eliminated. Or you can take the opposite view, that only one way to read this is correct -- but look out, because Richard and Linda as Cooper and Diane in an altered timeline/parallel universe also begins to look a lot like a 'red herring' too, in that it only leads to a dead end. There's no more explanatory value in this conclusion than in another. So you're left with nothing but red herrings.
Last edited by Novalis on Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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N. Needleman
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Re: Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:54 am

I don't think the Fireman is at all malevolent. Of course I didn't think Coop would pull a Fred Madison either.
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Re: Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby Cipher » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:07 am

claaa7 wrote:perhaps The Fireman was a malevolent force all along? Fire has always been associated with black magic, strong dark forces in the world of Twin Peaks and in Lynch universes and he's the actual Fireman.. he was also the one who sent Mister C right to the sherrif's office.

it would of course go against what we saw in episode 8 with his reaction to BOB, etc., but it would give some credence to why we saw the frogmoth thing hatch in connection with the Laura Palmer image orb being sent to earth while also being connected to the murderous Woodsman.

i'm just spitballing ideas here though, my gut says The Fireman is with the forces of good here

Yeah; I'm not doubting the Fireman as being a basically "good" cosmic force. The Black Lodge spirits are associated with fire and electricity; the role of a "fireman" is to stop fires.

He might not always have every individual's best interests at heart though. It's entirely possible Cooper's happy ending isn't part of his plan.

That's why I'm tempted to read his instructions as, if not a warning that was misinterpreted, setting into motion something, as ever, much larger than Cooper.

(But I don't think whatever that plan is would be something we'd really need to see, as lodge struggles are presumably never ending; it does offer a newly awakened Laura a shimmer of hope though; that she may play some role yet in a more effective capacity than Cooper.)
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BigEd
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Re: [Spoilers] Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby BigEd » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:32 pm

claaa7 wrote:so after Cooper and Diane had driven for 430 miles (throughout the same desert Mister C drove when he flipped over)


I doubt that Coop and Diane were in South Dakota.
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Wally Brando
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Re: [Spoilers] Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby Wally Brando » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:13 am

The 'Fat Trout' telegraph pole with the no. 6 on it was outside Carrie Page's home, not near the pylons.
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referendum
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Re: [Spoilers] Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby referendum » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:20 am

Worth mentioning here that the person who opened the door to Richard/Coop and Carrie Page at Laura Palmer's old house at the end, who called themselves Alice Tremond, is not played by an actor but by the real-life owner of the house, a woman called Mary Reber, who lives there with her husband.
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thefifthlizard
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Re: [Spoilers] Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby thefifthlizard » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:53 am

Now we've seen the finale, I wonder when the ??????/Cooper scene which took place at the beginning occured? Many of us thought it would be a future event.
claaa7
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Re: [Spoilers] Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby claaa7 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:54 am

referendum wrote:Worth mentioning here that the person who opened the door to Richard/Coop and Carrie Page at Laura Palmer's old house at the end, who called themselves Alice Tremond, is not played by an actor but by the real-life owner of the house, a woman called Mary Reber, who lives there with her husband.


this is very interesting.. i also want to note that she is not part of the same family who owned the house before 2014.. whether that has any implications about "What year" this is supposed to be, i don't know.

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wxray
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Re: [Spoilers] Remember 430... Richard and Linda

Postby wxray » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:10 am

Carrie Paige: "Odessa. I tried to keep a clean house. Keep everything organized. It's a long way."

Fireman: "It's in our house now."

Just like Coop/Richard is trapped, so is Laura/Carrie. They are hosed. Never gonna get that roach out of the house.

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