When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

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Ragnell
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:36 pm

I think it's likely that the second trip to Jack Rabbit's Palace will be when they meet Dale, but that's not in two day's time. That's 24 hours after what we saw in Ep 14.

In the meantime, we got almost no Kyle in Ep 14, so even if he doesn't wake up I hope we get some time in Vegas and some time with Doppelcoop. I do like Dougie (though I'm good with it ending this week if only so I don't have to see tons of complaining about Dougie in every other review and podcast--yeah, I was really annoyed to see that this week b/c it was all in Ep 14 reviews, people stopping to complain about Dougie in an ep where he didn't even show up!) and want regular Coop back and just seeing Doppelcoop isn't as good as seeing Dougie/Real Dale.

Fingers crossed he wakes up in Part 15. If not, I say Part 16. Beginning of Part 17 at the latest because I'm still convinced that once he's back, it's on. Everything will speed to resolution with him being conscious enough to tie things together, and probably knocking out a few of the sideplots on the way because he's magic and can't help but make things right.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby AgentEcho » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:54 pm

I was probably confusing the time between the dates on Brigg's instructions with the number of days between the first date and the discovery of the note, but one day might indicate it'll happen pretty soon if the theory is right. I'd move up my prediction of when it happens by an episode in that case. (I don't even know why I'm trying predictions at this point!)
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:58 pm

AgentEcho wrote:(I don't even know why I'm trying predictions at this point!)


Because in a few weeks we won't be able to try and predict what happens in this show again.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:25 pm

Was thinking on it. If Cole and Co. aren't delayed significantly on the way to Vegas, I expect Part 15 or early Part 16. It just seems like waking up is something he needs to do on his own, that this state isn't something they'll rescue him from. So I'm thinking he wakes before they get there.

Which is my final guess before Part 15 airs.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Maddy » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:04 pm

Maybe tonight's episode will see him waking up or at least recognizing Cole and Albert if they find him in time. Cole and Albert and Diane now looking for him and Janey-E and they don't even know it is him yet, maybe they'll recognize him when they find "Dougie" and take him for a medical exam. Also the coincidence that Janey-E is Diane's sister in law she can put them on the map to finding him surely it is only a matter of time. I think the best part of him snapping back to Coop from Dougie in an instant had to be when his training took over and he wrestled the gun away from Ike. He knew then something was different. I hope too there will be a final showdown between the two Coop's as mentioned earlier I hope there will be more black lodge too he will follow Mike's clues even in his current drool-like delirious state. Then how to get them back into the lodge if at all.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby BOB1 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:23 am

I see there is a possibility that Dougie will not ever be found/ recognized in Las Vegas but he will get out of there through the socket as he came in (and be found at Jack Rabbit's?). However, that would be disappointing. For many episodes there have been numerous clues given to different people like FBI and Twin Peaks police, which seemed to lead to closing in on Dougie. Fingerprints, Dougie on TV where someone might have seen him, the ring in Major's stomach, diary pages that Hawk found, Dr Hayward's skype conversation - I found these clues more absorbing than all the situations when Dougie seemed to be waking up (coffee, Ike and others), which obviously didn't work, at least not enough. So if they now remove Dougie from Vegas to wherever magically through the socket, it's like they dumped all those past clues, which, like I said, would be disappointing.

But hey, what role will the ancient key to the hotel room have?!
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Ragnell » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:38 pm

BOB1 wrote:I see there is a possibility that Dougie will not ever be found/ recognized in Las Vegas but he will get out of there through the socket as he came in (and be found at Jack Rabbit's?). However, that would be disappointing. For many episodes there have been numerous clues given to different people like FBI and Twin Peaks police, which seemed to lead to closing in on Dougie. Fingerprints, Dougie on TV where someone might have seen him, the ring in Major's stomach, diary pages that Hawk found, Dr Hayward's skype conversation - I found these clues more absorbing than all the situations when Dougie seemed to be waking up (coffee, Ike and others), which obviously didn't work, at least not enough. So if they now remove Dougie from Vegas to wherever magically through the socket, it's like they dumped all those past clues, which, like I said, would be disappointing.

But hey, what role will the ancient key to the hotel room have?!


Yeah, and not just that. The relationships he built there get thrown away without ever seeing any of them meet the real Cooper. And ultimately, it seems like we simply... wasted the whole Vegas storyline, if it just gets thrown away with a magic trip to TP. But I don't think this'll happen. I think there will be Real Cooper in Vegas time.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Gabriel » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:21 am

A cynic will suggest that Dougie will now be sucked into the room with the giant at the start of season three. At the same moment, the hit woman will show up and kill Janey E and Sonny Jim. Thus the Vegas plotline will vanish in a puff of smoke...

But am I a cynic???

Nah!! ;)
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Novalis » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:54 pm

My mind is going to some bleak places recently. Now I find myself wondering if Coop might not awaken properly before Chantal gets her wish and Hutch lets her torture him. This could be grim viewing.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby The Gazebo » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:32 am

Novalis wrote:My mind is going to some bleak places recently. Now I find myself wondering if Coop might not awaken properly before Chantal gets her wish and Hutch lets her torture him. This could be grim viewing.


Yeah, I've wondered when Chantal gets to live out her desires. How ironic (and cruel) if these comments actually pay off in the final episodes, while so many others comments and events have been (seemingly) red herrings.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby BOB1 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:28 am

Ragnell wrote:
BOB1 wrote:I see there is a possibility that Dougie will not ever be found/ recognized in Las Vegas but he will get out of there through the socket as he came in (and be found at Jack Rabbit's?). However, that would be disappointing. For many episodes there have been numerous clues given to different people like FBI and Twin Peaks police, which seemed to lead to closing in on Dougie. Fingerprints, Dougie on TV where someone might have seen him, the ring in Major's stomach, diary pages that Hawk found, Dr Hayward's skype conversation - I found these clues more absorbing than all the situations when Dougie seemed to be waking up (coffee, Ike and others), which obviously didn't work, at least not enough. So if they now remove Dougie from Vegas to wherever magically through the socket, it's like they dumped all those past clues, which, like I said, would be disappointing.

But hey, what role will the ancient key to the hotel room have?!


Yeah, and not just that. The relationships he built there get thrown away without ever seeing any of them meet the real Cooper. And ultimately, it seems like we simply... wasted the whole Vegas storyline, if it just gets thrown away with a magic trip to TP. But I don't think this'll happen. I think there will be Real Cooper in Vegas time.


You were right :D
I'm so happy they didn't screw it up! For all the many issues I have with The Return, the Dougie plotline was one thing I really enjoyed but of course it couldn't go on forever and it needed the real Cooper's back badly (that's what it was for in the first place!) and also, it needed to go on without any magic teleportation hoopla. And it's all been there - Janey-E and Sonny Jim, the Brothers and the Candies, the humour and the absurd, and most importantly Cooper himself, and in full cry :D It's great, too, that he is shown so aware of all that's been happening to him and therefore able to appreciate the people who lived around him during this strange time. They filled his heart :)
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby sylvia_north » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:58 am

Ragnell wrote:But hey, what role will the ancient key to the hotel room have?!


My wild guess is there will be a vortex behind the green door James was investigating, the key will open the door. The sound Bushnell hears will guide him.

Yeah I'm glad we had to wait for Cooper, too. Payoff worth it.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Ragnell » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:55 pm

BOB1 wrote:
Ragnell wrote:
BOB1 wrote:I see there is a possibility that Dougie will not ever be found/ recognized in Las Vegas but he will get out of there through the socket as he came in (and be found at Jack Rabbit's?). However, that would be disappointing. For many episodes there have been numerous clues given to different people like FBI and Twin Peaks police, which seemed to lead to closing in on Dougie. Fingerprints, Dougie on TV where someone might have seen him, the ring in Major's stomach, diary pages that Hawk found, Dr Hayward's skype conversation - I found these clues more absorbing than all the situations when Dougie seemed to be waking up (coffee, Ike and others), which obviously didn't work, at least not enough. So if they now remove Dougie from Vegas to wherever magically through the socket, it's like they dumped all those past clues, which, like I said, would be disappointing.

But hey, what role will the ancient key to the hotel room have?!


Yeah, and not just that. The relationships he built there get thrown away without ever seeing any of them meet the real Cooper. And ultimately, it seems like we simply... wasted the whole Vegas storyline, if it just gets thrown away with a magic trip to TP. But I don't think this'll happen. I think there will be Real Cooper in Vegas time.


You were right :D
I'm so happy they didn't screw it up! For all the many issues I have with The Return, the Dougie plotline was one thing I really enjoyed but of course it couldn't go on forever and it needed the real Cooper's back badly (that's what it was for in the first place!) and also, it needed to go on without any magic teleportation hoopla. And it's all been there - Janey-E and Sonny Jim, the Brothers and the Candies, the humour and the absurd, and most importantly Cooper himself, and in full cry :D It's great, too, that he is shown so aware of all that's been happening to him and therefore able to appreciate the people who lived around him during this strange time. They filled his heart :)


Oh, it was so wonderful! And him being aware solidified something for me. We were talking on this and other threads about maybe not getting the old Cooper back, that maybe there was too much damage to overcome and he wouldn't be optimistic or hopeful anymore but he EXPERIENCED these last 13 parts. He was in there during this, healing. The Lodge clearly wore him down, clearly made him suffer and made him hesitant and isolated and unsure of his surroundings. He was so still, reluctant, and suspicious of what he was seeing in Part 2. He was so lost in Part 3. And he comes out of the Lodge in this confused state, where he basically needs to experience everything about the world again and learn to be around human beings again. He's reborn into this community, fortunately in the shoes of a man who's disability resembles his state. So everyone in the community just kind of accepts this and nudges him, and gives him notice in how to do things. During this time he seemed to be learning to think, and to talk, and to eat and do things on his own so slowly. But really he was learning to trust and to love and to bond with other people again. He needed to fit in and be appreciated and encouraged. He was in a safe community full of people who protected him while he needed it, and when he got to the point where he was comfortable and filled with love and hope again he was able to wake up and get to work. And he was only too happy to show them gratitude for their kindness and comfort. It was just beautiful!

I can't wait to rewatch the whole Dougie storyline knowing this is how it ends up, knowing that he's aware and remembers all of this and loves all of them for being with him when he's at his most vulnerable.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby The Gazebo » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:16 pm

Ragnell wrote:I can't wait to rewatch the whole Dougie storyline knowing this is how it ends up, knowing that he's aware and remembers all of this and loves all of them for being with him when he's at his most vulnerable.


While I agree that this certainly creates a new layer to the whole Dougie story which could bring less yawning to rewatches (and is a beautiful idea on its own), it hasn't exactly been easy viewing for some of us :) But why aim for the electric socket if he was in some way fully cognizant and almost ready to go back to work?
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Ragnell » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:41 pm

The Gazebo wrote:
Ragnell wrote:I can't wait to rewatch the whole Dougie storyline knowing this is how it ends up, knowing that he's aware and remembers all of this and loves all of them for being with him when he's at his most vulnerable.


While I agree that this certainly creates a new layer to the whole Dougie story which could bring less yawning to rewatches (and is a beautiful idea on its own), it hasn't exactly been easy viewing for some of us :) But why aim for the electric socket if he was in some way fully cognizant and almost ready to go back to work?


Because he wasn't consciously lying low and healing, he was still missing part of his consciousness and will. His identity, certainly. His agency. Definitely parts of his memory. But he was aware, he was processing what was happening in a slower way. He was able to heal emotionally until he got enough willpower to reclaim his full consciousness.

Several things brought back memories, but in the end it was the Gordon Cole name that really brought back his sense of duty. But when you watch the scene and his pained reaction, you can see he still has some trouble pausing the television. And honestly, if what he's missing isn't just identity, if its agency, the ability to not only go with the flow of fate but to take opportunities and direct them, then that can't be something that's restored by complete chance. It's something you need to WORK to get. It's something you need to actively claim.

So when Jade brought Laura to mind... he wasn't healed enough. When he drank the coffee, he wasn't healed enough to go all the way. When TOAM told him to WAKE UP, he still wasn't healed enough to do more than follow his intuition on the paper. When he ate the cherry pie and heard the piano notes, he was still not yet healed enough emotionally to take his destiny in his own hands. He had started making minor decisions, big steps along the way with the miniscule ones he was taking every day, learning to exercise his will like a muscle he'd severely injured, but he wasn't healed enough to actually reclaim his identity and agency.

He needed enough faith, trust and love and time to recuperate before he made that slow crawl to the outlet, and held his fork there for long enough despite the pain of electric shock. That took willpower, and it took time to build it.

Had we seen Cooper emerge with all his faculties intact... it may have been much harder to recuperate with that fear, regret and pain causing him to distance people from him. But instead he came through without any self-image to protect, and was able to absorb his surroundings without those walls we put up between each other, like a little child. But not having agency doesn't mean he wasn't AWARE of the people around, which he had to have been in order to contextualize everything once he got his full memory and identity back.

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