General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:40 pm

Jasper wrote:


:lol:

This is one weird take, and that's saying something with Twin Peaks fans, myself included.

Even though it's very unlikely, (especially seeing how Lynch ignored all of the previously established Waldo events when making FWWM), I still like it. It amuses me, and I think I'm just going to treat it as canon from here on out. :D


Waldo’s in FWWM! That whole cabin sequence is kind of frenetic, but he’s there.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Jasper » Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:31 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Waldo’s in FWWM! That whole cabin sequence is kind of frenetic, but he’s there.


I know, I'm talking about the absence of Waldo pecking on Laura's shoulder, which is supposed to result in Laura being made to bite the poker chip, with Leo saying "Bite the bullet, baby!"
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby bowisneski » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:03 am

It ended up taking a lot longer than I hoped it would, but here is the Google Drive folder with all 18 parts mostly transposed and slightly adapted into script format.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wThFR4AHdpGrY9gtXNwxkekyCEv1gPOR?usp=sharing

I took certain sections from script pages we've seen, the FWwM script, Pilot script, and Sunset Boulevard script. I tried my best to avoid any personal interpretation of the material but I'm sure there's some. Hope that anyone that checks them out enjoys them.

If this is the wrong place to post this, feel free to move it.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby stro » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:44 pm

I rewatched recently, on a full series rewatch (including TSH and TFD), first time since The Return aired. My initial viewing of The Return was a lot of disappointment and confusion, and my second viewing with the whole series much fresher in my mind as I didn't do a rewatch of seasons 1/2/FWWM before The Return, I'm still not satisfied and still confused. My initial viewing, the big take away was the lack of music making everything feel so weird and off, but now I think it's actually the cinematography and lighting that is a bigger issue to missing the feel of the original run and FWWM. The all digital, all bright, even lighting makes it look cheap and sterile. The few flashbacks to FWWM or the original series highlight how much warmer and lived in the world of Twin Peaks seemed. It all feels like a set in The Return. Of course the dodgy green screening, intentional or not (and I have a hard time believing how bad the phones/tv screens chroma keying was was intentional, or how bad either chroma keying or projection in nearly all the driving scenes wasn't a time/budget issue) draws attention to this, and due to the equipment and lighting, there are many scenes that LOOK like cheap green screen but actually were real.

But ultimately I think it's lacking the humanity that made people fall in love with TP, and that's because most of that came from Frost, who seems to be overshadowed and overruled on all things TP when it comes to the Frost/Lynch partnership. All the quirky warmness is replaced with misery and grossness or weirdness that goes unexplained. The quote from Frost about something like "we can't just keep throwing weird mysteries and not solve them" implies to me that Lynch doesn't care about the mysteries or where they lead or how/if they can be solved, but how they make the viewer feel. I think this can be seeing going back to FWWM where Lynch pretty significantly changes the characterization of various characters and events that don't really line up with the show, because it made for a better feel in that particular story he was telling even if it didn't add up perfectly. So then we get The Return and it's a bunch of mystery boxes that I don't think there's an intention to be solved from Lynch, but Frost feels there has to be something concrete and so writes the books that Lynch isn't involved with and won't read or comment on.

I guess what I'm trying to say is The Return FEELS like it's really missing Frost's voice and characterization that defines the original run (to me) and instead it doubles down on Lynchian coldness and disorienting dreamy mysteries that you can't solve because there is no answer to them to begin with. And just a general misanthropic vibe. It's like the entire vibe was flipped upside down, where what used to be a show about a quirky small town with darkness under the surface is now a dark miserable cesspool with a handful of bright spots if you dig deep enough. Which is just...never going to be satisfying for me.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby eyeboogers » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:41 am

stro wrote: And just a general misanthropic vibe. It's like the entire vibe was flipped upside down


Like it or not, this was definitely the artistic ambition for the project. For some people life does not turn out exactly as they'd hoped. They get stuck in the mud. The really strong manage to shovel themselves out of the dirt and find happiness where they are now, and those that cannot let go of the ideals of the past and impossibly want to repeat or rekindle those ideals, will never get satisfied. This is true for the characters, and it is true for the viewing audience.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby AXX°N N. » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:34 am

stro wrote:But ultimately I think it's lacking the humanity that made people fall in love with TP....

I think a lot of why people fell in love with TP is not having to do with humanity or realism, actually, but fantasy. There's a lot in the original show that is a kind of too eager to entertain wish fulfillment, not in fact realistic or humane. For all that I love about the original TP, quirk is a contrivance that exists in concentrated form only in a fictionalized setting. I think S3 has a preoccupation with scaling that down and lifting the veil on what were previously almost escapist elements, and I don't think Lynch is as to blame as you think. Regarding Frost's books, they seem similarly preoccupied with 'correcting the record,' retconning past plot points that were merely broad, or shallow, and not yet integrated in a meaningful way. I also think his approach to the setting as he now understands it and how it relates to actual reality is much more textured, researched, and nuanced compared to old TP. His books feel about as corrective and a lifting of the veil as the new season does, it's just that it's more backward-looking and revisional.

Did you watch on bluray or streaming? Because I had my issues with the VFX until I went to the BR masters, which look fantastic technically. I don't think streaming quality does service to any VFX in anything, and especially not to audio fidelity. But in general, I think the sterile and virtual look is intentional. Whether it works for you or not, it clearly fits thematically, especially with things like the editing rhythm glitching out in the purple sea room with Naido.

Also, I find in general an aversion to 'cold' storylines, characters whose lives don't amount to anything, etc. itself very cynical. Why do you charge art that showcases that as somehow misanthropic, but you don't consider your implicit wish they never be shown itself unkind to those lives? People do not, on average, end up with lives that are TV pretty. The desire for this to be 'corrected' by way of them never entering the narrative lens is, to me, actually more misanthropic. Isn't it a humane act to acknowledge a great variety of the experiences of human beings, instead of condemning it out of sight?
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby stro » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:14 am

AXX°N N. wrote:
stro wrote:But ultimately I think it's lacking the humanity that made people fall in love with TP....

I think a lot of why people fell in love with TP is not having to do with humanity or realism, actually, but fantasy. There's a lot in the original show that is a kind of too eager to entertain wish fulfillment, not in fact realistic or humane. For all that I love about the original TP, quirk is a contrivance that exists in concentrated form only in a fictionalized setting. I think S3 has a preoccupation with scaling that down and lifting the veil on what were previously almost escapist elements, and I don't think Lynch is as to blame as you think. Regarding Frost's books, they seem similarly preoccupied with 'correcting the record,' retconning past plot points that were merely broad, or shallow, and not yet integrated in a meaningful way. I also think his approach to the setting as he now understands it and how it relates to actual reality is much more textured, researched, and nuanced compared to old TP. His books feel about as corrective and a lifting of the veil as the new season does, it's just that it's more backward-looking and revisional.

Did you watch on bluray or streaming? Because I had my issues with the VFX until I went to the BR masters, which look fantastic technically. I don't think streaming quality does service to any VFX in anything, and especially not to audio fidelity. But in general, I think the sterile and virtual look is intentional. Whether it works for you or not, it clearly fits thematically, especially with things like the editing rhythm glitching out in the purple sea room with Naido.

Also, I find in general an aversion to 'cold' storylines, characters whose lives don't amount to anything, etc. itself very cynical. Why do you charge art that showcases that as somehow misanthropic, but you don't consider your implicit wish they never be shown itself unkind to those lives? People do not, on average, end up with lives that are TV pretty. The desire for this to be 'corrected' by way of them never entering the narrative lens is, to me, actually more misanthropic. Isn't it a humane act to acknowledge a great variety of the experiences of human beings, instead of condemning it out of sight?



No, I do not find not enjoying or wanting to find out that characters you enjoyed from 25 years ago are all miserable and dying or otherwise have been stuck in the same ruts for 25 years to to be more misanthropic than writing a story where said characters are all miserable and dying or otherwise have been stuck in the same ruts for 25 years and most of the new characters introduced are also miserable or scum bags. I'm not even really sure how you could even come to such a conclusion. I am also aware that the sterile and virtual look is intentional, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or think it fits the world of Twin Peaks, especially when The Return occasionally cuts to shots from the original run and it looks like two completely disconnected projects. I wanted a return to Twin Peaks to feel like Twin Peaks, not Lost Highway and beyond Lynch work that happens to have some versions of Twin Peaks characters in it. I don't think it's weird to be disappointed by that, or that it's misanthropic to want to see those characters have turned out to have decent lives.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby AXX°N N. » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:44 am

stro wrote:No, I do not find not enjoying or wanting to find out that characters you enjoyed from 25 years ago are all miserable and dying or otherwise have been stuck in the same ruts for 25 years to to be more misanthropic than writing a story where said characters are all miserable and dying or otherwise have been stuck in the same ruts for 25 years and most of the new characters introduced are also miserable or scum bags. I'm not even really sure how you could even come to such a conclusion. I am also aware that the sterile and virtual look is intentional, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or think it fits the world of Twin Peaks, especially when The Return occasionally cuts to shots from the original run and it looks like two completely disconnected projects. I wanted a return to Twin Peaks to feel like Twin Peaks, not Lost Highway and beyond Lynch work that happens to have some versions of Twin Peaks characters in it. I don't think it's weird to be disappointed by that, or that it's misanthropic to want to see those characters have turned out to have decent lives.

Misanthropy is "the general hatred, dislike, distrust or contempt of the human species and/or human nature." If part of human nature involves getting stuck in ruts, not living up to past promise, tragedy, boredom, illness and death, isn't banishing that from a narrative showcasing dislike?

What would a Twin Peaks sequel where everyone turned out decent look like? Is someone having a life that worked out a prerequisite for caring about them, or finding them worthwhile?
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby stro » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:04 am

AXX°N N. wrote:
stro wrote:No, I do not find not enjoying or wanting to find out that characters you enjoyed from 25 years ago are all miserable and dying or otherwise have been stuck in the same ruts for 25 years to to be more misanthropic than writing a story where said characters are all miserable and dying or otherwise have been stuck in the same ruts for 25 years and most of the new characters introduced are also miserable or scum bags. I'm not even really sure how you could even come to such a conclusion. I am also aware that the sterile and virtual look is intentional, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or think it fits the world of Twin Peaks, especially when The Return occasionally cuts to shots from the original run and it looks like two completely disconnected projects. I wanted a return to Twin Peaks to feel like Twin Peaks, not Lost Highway and beyond Lynch work that happens to have some versions of Twin Peaks characters in it. I don't think it's weird to be disappointed by that, or that it's misanthropic to want to see those characters have turned out to have decent lives.

Misanthropy is "the general hatred, dislike, distrust or contempt of the human species and/or human nature." If part of human nature involves getting stuck in ruts, not living up to past promise, tragedy, boredom, illness and death, isn't banishing that from a narrative showcasing dislike?

What would a Twin Peaks sequel where everyone turned out decent look like? Is someone having a life that worked out a prerequisite for caring about them, or finding them worthwhile?


It is definitely not misanthropic to have a return to these characters after so long, for most likely the last time, and to want them to have decent send offs. Come on, man. The only original characters that got a good ending were Norma and Big Ed, and even then....they wasted 50 years of their lives and Peggy Lipton passed away right after so if there were to be a return, there would be no Norma. Even Laura had a pretty explicit good ending which was overwritten by a cosmic nightmare left open to interpretation with no answers ever to be given. It seems like there was a lot more interest in the Vegas characters in compared to the Twin Peaks residents....it's all just frustrating.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby TwinsPeak » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:45 am

The Return is much easier to enjoy if one lets go of his own personal wants and desires from the series and lets it just be its own story without the viewer trying to make it fit inside its desired box. Its never going to be the original, things change characters and stories change. The flashbacks were great for going back to what was. When I watched it live I too was upset because I wanted it to be more like I imagined. The 2nd time I watched it, I told myself to just enjoy it and stop trying to make it what I thought I wanted.

I would love a season 4 (like I want it really really bad) no matter if it was only new characters or just originals. I'm starving for more Peaks. I like Lynch's weather updates but I would prefer some new Peaks.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:14 am

TwinsPeak wrote: I like Lynch's weather updates but I would prefer some new Peaks.


Speaking of unresolved mysteries, what is up with those tinted glasses!
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby AXX°N N. » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:23 am

stro wrote:It is definitely not misanthropic to have a return to these characters after so long, for most likely the last time, and to want them to have decent send offs. Come on, man. The only original characters that got a good ending were Norma and Big Ed, and even then....they wasted 50 years of their lives and Peggy Lipton passed away right after so if there were to be a return, there would be no Norma. Even Laura had a pretty explicit good ending which was overwritten by a cosmic nightmare left open to interpretation with no answers ever to be given. It seems like there was a lot more interest in the Vegas characters in compared to the Twin Peaks residents....it's all just frustrating.

There's little I would call explicit in FWWM.

What I find misanthropic is this notion that characters must only experience satisfaction, and get everything they wanted, or thought they wanted. That a narrative is obligated to never leave someone feeling empty, or faced with a character being displeasured or wronged. Why is that desirable? How is that not escapism or wish-fulfillment?

Inherent in that notion is that there are only certain choices, certain kinds of outcomes, and certain kinds of people that are acceptable and worth extending empathy toward. I find in the people I know who are displeased with their lives, it often relates to their constantly desiring something that is hedonically rewarding in terms of the outcome they feel they should get for merely living, but to expect this eliminates the ability to reconcile with bad twists of fate, which happen all the time. I think it's a result of what our culture endorses as satisfying in a narrative sense, but I find it troubling to encourage the thinking that there's only anything worthwhile to find in the lives of the satisfied. And just thinking in terms of what drives drama and narrative, I find it hard to even picture what it would look like if TP had the good outcomes I sometimes see the disappointed regret that we didn't get. How do you give someone a happy ending that doesn't feel like the writer is just tossing a freebie get out of jail free card at someone? Moreover, why does a character deserve that by default, and how do you make something that resonates with reality if your impulse is to avoid doing to them what reality does to people?

I think if there's an ethics to S3, it involves this kind of discussion, and it's part of the DNA of what the themes are about at heart. Nostalgia, wishing for the better, regretting the bad, not being fulfilled, striving to go against the unassailable, and the nightmare of that being robbed from you.

If you can disengage from characters not acting as if they're all the stars in their own film of their own life, and instead take their often diminished roles in the bigger picture as an actually very humane grounding of them in a realistic way, I think there are a lot of empathetic touches to be found in S3, even when it's bleak or the characters are literally feeling small and disappointed. The scene with Lucy and Andy arguing over the chairs comes to mind, and is realistically what a 25 years fulfilled relationship would in fact look like--mundane, some tension, sometimes with a struggle but an earned one to arrive at a loving place. What would a better Norma & Ed trajectory have looked like, and how would you craft a more compelling scene from marital bliss?
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby stro » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:40 am

TwinsPeak wrote:The Return is much easier to enjoy if one lets go of his own personal wants and desires from the series and lets it just be its own story without the viewer trying to make it fit inside its desired box. Its never going to be the original, things change characters and stories change. The flashbacks were great for going back to what was. When I watched it live I too was upset because I wanted it to be more like I imagined. The 2nd time I watched it, I told myself to just enjoy it and stop trying to make it what I thought I wanted.

I would love a season 4 (like I want it really really bad) no matter if it was only new characters or just originals. I'm starving for more Peaks. I like Lynch's weather updates but I would prefer some new Peaks.


I don't disagree and I did enjoy it more the second time around because of it, but it still has a lot of muddled narrative and pacing issues taking all the "it isn't like old TP" stuff out of the equation. I can't help but think the original 9 episode mini series would have been a much tighter story.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby LateReg » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:38 pm

stro wrote:The all digital, all bright, even lighting makes it look cheap and sterile. The few flashbacks to FWWM or the original series highlight how much warmer and lived in the world of Twin Peaks seemed. It all feels like a set in The Return. Of course the dodgy green screening, intentional or not (and I have a hard time believing how bad the phones/tv screens chroma keying was was intentional, or how bad either chroma keying or projection in nearly all the driving scenes wasn't a time/budget issue) draws attention to this, and due to the equipment and lighting, there are many scenes that LOOK like cheap green screen but actually were real.

But ultimately I think it's lacking the humanity that made people fall in love with TP, and that's because most of that came from Frost, who seems to be overshadowed and overruled on all things TP when it comes to the Frost/Lynch partnership. All the quirky warmness is replaced with misery and grossness or weirdness that goes unexplained. The quote from Frost about something like "we can't just keep throwing weird mysteries and not solve them" implies to me that Lynch doesn't care about the mysteries or where they lead or how/if they can be solved, but how they make the viewer feel. I think this can be seeing going back to FWWM where Lynch pretty significantly changes the characterization of various characters and events that don't really line up with the show, because it made for a better feel in that particular story he was telling even if it didn't add up perfectly. So then we get The Return and it's a bunch of mystery boxes that I don't think there's an intention to be solved from Lynch, but Frost feels there has to be something concrete and so writes the books that Lynch isn't involved with and won't read or comment on.

I guess what I'm trying to say is The Return FEELS like it's really missing Frost's voice and characterization that defines the original run (to me) and instead it doubles down on Lynchian coldness and disorienting dreamy mysteries that you can't solve because there is no answer to them to begin with. And just a general misanthropic vibe. It's like the entire vibe was flipped upside down, where what used to be a show about a quirky small town with darkness under the surface is now a dark miserable cesspool with a handful of bright spots if you dig deep enough. Which is just...never going to be satisfying for me.


I appreciate the way you worded a lot of this. That it "FEELS" it's missing Frost's voice and characterization, for example. That some scenes "LOOK" like cheap green screen, etc. I'm a big fan of the way the season looks and feels, but you describe it correctly.

Where I differ, beyond seeing greater artistic value in some things, is in some of my interpretations.

1. I think whether fully intentional or not, or the result of budget or time constraints, the green screen and whatever else became part of the piece, and it very much fits with the way it seems to be embrace certain meta-approaches that highlight Twin Peaks as an evolving work of fiction while also serving to highlight another layer of multiple realities (town of Twin Peaks, lodge world, the real-real world in which the series was made, Lynch as the director of the FBI and of the series, etc.). I really appreciated how you pointed out that some of this looks like a set when it isn't and vice versa, because I think that's all part of the destabilizing function of the piece. I think he very much wanted to depict the reality of the town, while at other times we see things that are noticeably fake, challenging the notion of why special effects are almost always used in service of the real.

2. I see the misanthropy on display as part of the realism of the piece, just as you do, but beyond accepting it as the correct move, where I differ is that I also see even more humanity here and on a much realer level than in the original series. It is true that there is a general sense of decay, but Lynch/Frost are continuously attempting to show you that decency and kindness still exist, in just about every scene with Carl Rodd (including the scene with the guy who donates his blood), with Andy and Lucy, with Big Ed and Norma, the Log Lady (even so near to death, her performance is pure humanity in my eyes), Miriam the pie-loving school teacher at the diner, etc.

3. It may feel like it's missing Frost's voice and characterization, but I don't think that it is. I see a lot of stuff in there that is noticeably Frost, as much as Lynch. And I also think the idea that Frost wasn't on board with Lynch's way of doing things are likely false, not only because Frost had time to grapple with mistakes they made in the past as well as the expectation of Lynch deploying his post-Peaks style, but because Frost had said that he felt it was time to throw their hat in the ring and see if they could once again be revolutionary in the current TV landscape. I believe this implies that Frost was very much on board with Lynch's style of dreamlike narratives and unsolved mysteries, as well as the season's numerous storylines that pop up only to be never resolved as those are a few of the things that set this work apart as something that is indeed revolutionary.

4. In response to your later post, I can also observe how the narrative is muddled and how one might think there are pacing issues due to the way it approaches its story, but again I feel this loose yet rigidly structured form is part of what sets it apart. I too sometimes think of what a tighter 9-hour version might have looked like, but I don't think there ever was going to be a version that short, as many believe that the negotiations were over a misunderstanding regarding the length of the piece in the first place. Regardless, one of the things the season did for me is make me ask the question: Why do we need a tighter narrative? Why is that a constraint we place on narrative filmmaking, especially when its an experimental work? I know why its a beneficial thing that we constrain MOST stories with, but why is it a rule that must apply to all stories? A big element of The Return is how it enabled so many seemingly random scenes, giving the illusion of stories taking place beyond the frame, which not only allows for Lynch's vision of a story that is more lifelike, but also creates space for so many wonderful scenes that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise, whether it's Lynch and Diane smoking outside the police station, or a woman doing a reverse strip tease, or a man lost in the woods, or a man sweeping a floor. All of those scenes liven the unpredictability of the piece, fit with the in media res approach to the narrative, and are as valuable to me as the plot-driven scenes, but they also serve a central thematic purpose: to stretch out the narrative, to further the feeling of the passage of time. So to me there aren't pacing issues, so much as a narrative that is unshackled and something else altogether.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby stro » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:14 pm

LateReg wrote:
stro wrote:The all digital, all bright, even lighting makes it look cheap and sterile. The few flashbacks to FWWM or the original series highlight how much warmer and lived in the world of Twin Peaks seemed. It all feels like a set in The Return. Of course the dodgy green screening, intentional or not (and I have a hard time believing how bad the phones/tv screens chroma keying was was intentional, or how bad either chroma keying or projection in nearly all the driving scenes wasn't a time/budget issue) draws attention to this, and due to the equipment and lighting, there are many scenes that LOOK like cheap green screen but actually were real.

But ultimately I think it's lacking the humanity that made people fall in love with TP, and that's because most of that came from Frost, who seems to be overshadowed and overruled on all things TP when it comes to the Frost/Lynch partnership. All the quirky warmness is replaced with misery and grossness or weirdness that goes unexplained. The quote from Frost about something like "we can't just keep throwing weird mysteries and not solve them" implies to me that Lynch doesn't care about the mysteries or where they lead or how/if they can be solved, but how they make the viewer feel. I think this can be seeing going back to FWWM where Lynch pretty significantly changes the characterization of various characters and events that don't really line up with the show, because it made for a better feel in that particular story he was telling even if it didn't add up perfectly. So then we get The Return and it's a bunch of mystery boxes that I don't think there's an intention to be solved from Lynch, but Frost feels there has to be something concrete and so writes the books that Lynch isn't involved with and won't read or comment on.

I guess what I'm trying to say is The Return FEELS like it's really missing Frost's voice and characterization that defines the original run (to me) and instead it doubles down on Lynchian coldness and disorienting dreamy mysteries that you can't solve because there is no answer to them to begin with. And just a general misanthropic vibe. It's like the entire vibe was flipped upside down, where what used to be a show about a quirky small town with darkness under the surface is now a dark miserable cesspool with a handful of bright spots if you dig deep enough. Which is just...never going to be satisfying for me.


I appreciate the way you worded a lot of this. That it "FEELS" it's missing Frost's voice and characterization, for example. That some scenes "LOOK" like cheap green screen, etc. I'm a big fan of the way the season looks and feels, but you describe it correctly.

Where I differ, beyond seeing greater artistic value in some things, is in some of my interpretations.

1. I think whether fully intentional or not, or the result of budget or time constraints, the green screen and whatever else became part of the piece, and it very much fits with the way it seems to be embrace certain meta-approaches that highlight Twin Peaks as an evolving work of fiction while also serving to highlight another layer of multiple realities (town of Twin Peaks, lodge world, the real-real world in which the series was made, Lynch as the director of the FBI and of the series, etc.). I really appreciated how you pointed out that some of this looks like a set when it isn't and vice versa, because I think that's all part of the destabilizing function of the piece. I think he very much wanted to depict the reality of the town, while at other times we see things that are noticeably fake, challenging the notion of why special effects are almost always used in service of the real.

2. I see the misanthropy on display as part of the realism of the piece, just as you do, but beyond accepting it as the correct move, where I differ is that I also see even more humanity here and on a much realer level than in the original series. It is true that there is a general sense of decay, but Lynch/Frost are continuously attempting to show you that decency and kindness still exist, in just about every scene with Carl Rodd (including the scene with the guy who donates his blood), with Andy and Lucy, with Big Ed and Norma, the Log Lady (even so near to death, her performance is pure humanity in my eyes), Miriam the pie-loving school teacher at the diner, etc.

3. It may feel like it's missing Frost's voice and characterization, but I don't think that it is. I see a lot of stuff in there that is noticeably Frost, as much as Lynch. And I also think the idea that Frost wasn't on board with Lynch's way of doing things are likely false, not only because Frost had time to grapple with mistakes they made in the past as well as the expectation of Lynch deploying his post-Peaks style, but because Frost had said that he felt it was time to throw their hat in the ring and see if they could once again be revolutionary in the current TV landscape. I believe this implies that Frost was very much on board with Lynch's style of dreamlike narratives and unsolved mysteries, as well as the season's numerous storylines that pop up only to be never resolved as those are a few of the things that set this work apart as something that is indeed revolutionary.

4. In response to your later post, I can also observe how the narrative is muddled and how one might think there are pacing issues due to the way it approaches its story, but again I feel this loose yet rigidly structured form is part of what sets it apart. I too sometimes think of what a tighter 9-hour version might have looked like, but I don't think there ever was going to be a version that short, as many believe that the negotiations were over a misunderstanding regarding the length of the piece in the first place. Regardless, one of the things the season did for me is make me ask the question: Why do we need a tighter narrative? Why is that a constraint we place on narrative filmmaking, especially when its an experimental work? I know why its a beneficial thing that we constrain MOST stories with, but why is it a rule that must apply to all stories? A big element of The Return is how it enabled so many seemingly random scenes, giving the illusion of stories taking place beyond the frame, which not only allows for Lynch's vision of a story that is more lifelike, but also creates space for so many wonderful scenes that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise, whether it's Lynch and Diane smoking outside the police station, or a woman doing a reverse strip tease, or a man lost in the woods, or a man sweeping a floor. All of those scenes liven the unpredictability of the piece, fit with the in media res approach to the narrative, and are as valuable to me as the plot-driven scenes, but they also serve a central thematic purpose: to stretch out the narrative, to further the feeling of the passage of time. So to me there aren't pacing issues, so much as a narrative that is unshackled and something else altogether.


I'm not sure they accomplished their goal of being revolutionary TV again, only because so many prestige shows over the past 10-15 years were already heavily influenced by TP and the mystery box aspect with maybe different timelines, maybe different universes, flash backs you don't know if they are or aren't flashbacks has been a regular occurrence for quite a while now. It's almost a cyclical thing of TP influences a generation which then influences the next generation of TP.

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