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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:16 pm
by Cappy
mtwentz wrote:
The Thing is the most relevant Carpenter movie to today’s situation...
It's funny you mention that -- I was watching Adrienne Barbeau watch the supernatural fog creep across the beach and into her town, and I couldn't help but think of the current situation.
But yeah, The Thing is most relevant and, in my opinion, Carpenter's best flick. It's just not on Shudder (or any other streaming service I subscribe to).
I wonder if any TP fans are reading any of the current situation in The Return. I feel Part 8, with healthy drivers fleeing dirty men, who, in turn, bring (differing levels of) suffering to all they come across, could be viewed as reminiscent of the panic and randomness of illness. Also the imagery following the a-bomb explosion -- it's almost like we are traveling into some deep, microscopic world where bacteria and viruses roam freely.
Granted, I have no doubt that we could project our current anxieties onto anything we were to watch right now, from Westworld to Will and Grace re-runs. But just thought I'd throw that out there about Part 8.
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:22 pm
by LateReg
What about the sick zombie-esque girl with the unknown disease and her honking mother in Part 11? I think that level of panic and confusion goes along with what you're saying as well.
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:11 am
by Cappy
LateReg wrote:What about the sick zombie-esque girl with the unknown disease and her honking mother in Part 11? I think that level of panic and confusion goes along with what you're saying as well.
Definitely. I think there's also something also to be said for The Return's fixation (or mere acknowledgement) of human mortality and health -- One main character is completed sidelined due to illness (Harry Truman), another succumbs to illness in the middle of the story (Log Lady), and then there is whatever the deal is with Tom Paige.
Not to mention that Audrey and Sarah Palmer appear to be shut ins to varying degrees. Has there ever been a tv show where so many characters were explicitly ill?
I don't want to make the hot take that "The Return anticipated current events", but it's certainly interesting to think about.
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:48 am
by LateReg
Cappy wrote:LateReg wrote:What about the sick zombie-esque girl with the unknown disease and her honking mother in Part 11? I think that level of panic and confusion goes along with what you're saying as well.
Definitely. I think there's also something also to be said for The Return's fixation (or mere acknowledgement) of human mortality and health -- One main character is completed sidelined due to illness (Harry Truman), another succumbs to illness in the middle of the story (Log Lady), and then there is whatever the deal is with Tom Paige.
Not to mention that Audrey and Sarah Palmer appear to be shut ins to varying degrees. Has there ever been a tv show where so many characters were explicitly ill?
I don't want to make the hot take that "The Return anticipated current events", but it's certainly interesting to think about.
Yes, hugely powerful acknowledgments of the decline of health, amidst many other declines. I certainly can't think of another fictional work that treats death as something so real, which intertwines with its approach to illness. All part of the spell or pall The Return casts.
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:04 am
by Saturn's child
mtwentz wrote:The Thing is the most relevant Carpenter movie to today’s situation...
I don't mean to make light of the situation, but you could also make an argument for Big Trouble in Little China & Escape From New York...
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:27 pm
by mtwentz
Saturn's child wrote:mtwentz wrote:The Thing is the most relevant Carpenter movie to today’s situation...
I don't mean to make light of the situation, but you could also make an argument for Big Trouble in Little China & Escape From New York...
When there was talk of New York being quarantined...
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:43 pm
by Pinky
someone just asked Kyle if there's any Mr C in Odessaverse Coop and he said no. Kind of assumed there was.
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:14 pm
by baxter
On a first viewing, I assumed that there was too. But on a second viewing, it really seemed that I was just watching normal Cooper, but a Cooper who is increasingly confused and anxious as he realises the gravity of the situation.
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:00 am
by LateReg
Pinky wrote:someone just asked Kyle if there's any Mr C in Odessaverse Coop and he said no. Kind of assumed there was.
Hmmm. Me too. I don't know if I agree with that. It's very hard not to see Mr. C at Judy's diner, or during the sex scene. I think, in fact, Frost had basically said otherwise when discussing Cooper's journey and hubris in the end in some interview he gave shortly after the finale aired. Talking about integrating his shadow self, which would be Mr. C. I may have read into that to be about Richard, and I can't remember exactly what was said, but I really thought it was said...
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:04 am
by Mr. Reindeer
Just for reference, I believe this is the tweet you’re referring to.
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:19 am
by Mr. Reindeer
Here’s another quote from Kyle regarding Richard, from
Variety:
Did you feel that Richard, in the finale, was a distinct character of his own, or just Cooper with a different name?
He was… different. The way it was described to me, he’s just a little harder. So it was another variation, sort of a subtle variation obviously, compared to the other two, but a subtle variation of Cooper. And so that was that last hour, Watching him navigate that.
I don’t recall the specific Frost quote LateReg is mentioning, although Mark gave so many great interviews post-finale, including some hour-long podcasts, that it’s difficult to keep track of everything he said. It definitely sounds right. Anyway, Kyle admits in that Variety interview that he doesn’t ask Lynch for guidance unless he really feels like there’s something he needs that isn’t in the script, so his interpretation may vary from Lynch’s, which might well vary from Frost’s! (Remember that the idea of “Richard” as a separately-named character in P18 is something Lynch did on his own, and Mark says Lynch never explained his reasoning.) I think the way Kyle played it clearly evokes Mr. C, with the slow deliberate intonations and movements. It frankly seems like a very conscious performance choice on Kyle’s part, so it’s surprising to see him deny it.
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:33 pm
by enumbs
MacLachlan’s demeanour as Cooper noticeably hardens in the red room before meeting Diane at Glastonbury Grove.
Perhaps he’s saying Mr C didn’t return in the diner scene because he’d in fact returned earlier, or even that he had been there all along...
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:45 pm
by eyeboogers
Cooper is harder because a Tulpa was made from him. We know that Mr.C lost the maniacal "How's Annie?" joy of being evil somewhere along the way, and I am fairly certain it was due to Dougie v.1 being made from a part of him. Notice how Dougie v.1 was all about joy, and excess/gluttony. Now a second Dougie has been made of the real Coop and it is having consequences. Also at the point Cooper exits for the curtain call, it seems he has been through this particular loop more than once. He has picked up a ton of new tricks, has become "The Magician" and empathy, joy and hope is in short supply.
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:14 am
by mtwentz
LateReg wrote:mtwentz wrote:
-Twin Peaks: The Return, stacks up favorably against most reboots/continuations/reunions. It would be interesting to get a list of movies or shows that have come back after 10 years or more, and see how they are rated by critics and fans. I am not saying The Return would be the highest rated, but I'll bet it would be in the top 10% or so.
Are there many great examples of a show coming back from a 10 year or more hiatus and be as thought provoking at The Return? Deadwood might be an example.
Veronica Mars, for example, was recently listed at #2, one spot ahead of The Return, on a list of revivals; both shows finished below One Day At A Time, which is indeed a great revival. Mars did a lot of good things in its revival, but it's also TV through and through, updated to resemble just about every TV show currently in existence; similarly, One Day at a Time succeeded because it stuck to the old sitcom formula while updating its topicality to poignantly joust with the current political climate. I found that the person who wrote the list did not even cover The Return, and in fact had published articles about her love of the original series while talking about the show's imminent revival in early 2017 but stopped talking about Twin Peaks the moment The Return started airing. I can only assume she was one of the disappointed. More than most series, The Return is simply not for everyone and so it's going to be very hard for it to be rated at the top of any sort of recent consensus poll - it gets by not by the volume of its supporters, but by their passion, and it is indeed passion that determines legacy on all-time polls - while other times a thorough writer may include it in a respectable spot on a publicized list despite not loving it.
I was surprised to find out that a lot of fans of Veronica Mars hated the revival.
So my wife and I checked it out, and we both really liked it. I didn't like it nearly as much as The Return, but it kept my interest throughout. I understand the hatred by some fans for The Return much more than for Veronica Mars (2019), since The Return is so experimental.
But now I realize that no matter what Lynch and Frost had done, there would have been a 'profoundly disappointed' group. It's just hard for some fans to accept a revival series.
One Day At A Time doesn't really count in my book, since it's the same concept but completely different characters/actors.
Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:58 pm
by Jerry Horne