Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[baxter]

I can't agree that the "characterful" side of Twin Peaks in the original show was only there to be deconstructed. It was a major focal point of the show, and it leads directly on to The Straight Story in Lynch's oeuvre,which is one of the most humane and compassionate films I've ever seen.

That side is not the focus of the present work, but it is very much a part of his total output.

[Novalis]

I can't agree that the "characterful" side of Twin Peaks in the original show was only there to be deconstructed. It was a major focal point of the show, and it leads directly on to The Straight Story in Lynch's oeuvre,which is one of the most humane and compassionate films I've ever seen.

That side is not the focus of the present work, but it is very much a part of his total output.

You know, you're right. I completely forgot about The Straight Story. In fact, forgetting about that film is a tendency of mine, and probably indicative of other things I overlook. I mean, I'm not accusing Lynch of being antihumanistic or anything -- maybe that's just the way I come across because I tend towards that point of view myself. So yeah, there is something of that compassionate side of his art there (and come to think of it The Elephant Man has tenderness in spades) but I'm kind of used to thinking about Rebekah Del Rio falling to the floor while the song Llorando continues, or Laura Dern's Nikki accusing Justin Theroux's Devon of quoting lines from their script mid argument, or the dynamics between Betty Elms and Woody Katz as her audition alternates between real and irreal. Then there's the heavy implications of simulated emotion in Lost Highway's Alice. However, you're right in saying this material is the more recent. For me, these moments have tended to overshadow (and meta-critique) the naturalistic moments. On balance I'd say that I may have overstated the case.

[LurkerAtTheThreshold]

I can't agree that the "characterful" side of Twin Peaks in the original show was only there to be deconstructed. It was a major focal point of the show, and it leads directly on to The Straight Story in Lynch's oeuvre,which is one of the most humane and compassionate films I've ever seen.

That side is not the focus of the present work, but it is very much a part of his total output.

Yeah I find it really weird that argumentative folk seem deadset on attacking fans who just comment that the emotional heart of Twin Peaks is not on form.

About Dougie they are like; 'id be happy to see Dougie for the entire 18 hours'. When we cut from episode 7 which has all the aspects of the show we liked, to episode 8 which is a hollow emotional hole, they sneer at the 'coffee and pie brigade' for not being able to appreciate a jarring chaotic hell hole.

I don't know man, it's like they are cheering for Mr C

It's not weird or nostalgic to want hope and emotional lightness to make its way back to Twin Peaks. That's just your natural instinct as a viewer who cares about the characters on screen. I personally think that all the jaded fans are the only ones with their heart in the right place, as Diane says to Cole 'Something is missing here.'

Everything about this series says 'something is not right in Twin Peaks' and we can only hope that's the creators intent at this point ---but they have the foresight (and the skill at this point) to bring it back to emotional relatability.

I've got to say, it's going to be hard with all the abstraction, suggested rape, extreme and gruesome death toll and all else -- to bring it back to a place of relatable empathy.

I still hope and believe that Frost and Lynch can do it.

[The Gazebo]

I can't agree that the "characterful" side of Twin Peaks in the original show was only there to be deconstructed. It was a major focal point of the show, and it leads directly on to The Straight Story in Lynch's oeuvre,which is one of the most humane and compassionate films I've ever seen.

That side is not the focus of the present work, but it is very much a part of his total output.

I still hope and believe that Frost and Lynch can do it.

I'm not sure we'll get there. We have had 25 years to idolize this one, small thing in the creative universe. Frost and Lynch have had 25 years to grow and find other themes worth exploring. The one surprise is the digital "feel" of this whole show, after being very careful of making everything red-ish in the previous universe.

[Hercousin]

I can't agree that the "characterful" side of Twin Peaks in the original show was only there to be deconstructed. It was a major focal point of the show, and it leads directly on to The Straight Story in Lynch's oeuvre,which is one of the most humane and compassionate films I've ever seen.

That side is not the focus of the present work, but it is very much a part of his total output.

You know, you're right. I completely forgot about The Straight Story. In fact, forgetting about that film is a tendency of mine, and probably indicative of other things I overlook. I mean, I'm not accusing Lynch of being antihumanistic or anything -- maybe that's just the way I come across because I tend towards that point of view myself. So yeah, there is something of that compassionate side of his art there (and come to think of it The Elephant Man has tenderness in spades) but I'm kind of used to thinking about Rebekah Del Rio falling to the floor while the song Llorando continues, or Laura Dern's Nikki accusing Justin Theroux's Devon of quoting lines from their script mid argument, or the dynamics between Betty Elms and Woody Katz as her audition alternates between real and irreal. Then there's the heavy implications of simulated emotion in Lost Highway's Alice. However, you're right in saying this material is the more recent. For me, these moments have tended to overshadow (and meta-critique) the naturalistic moments. On balance I'd say that I may have overstated the case.

This and your previous post about the object of longing are really beautiful. Thank you. I'm enjoying the Return on mostly an intellectual level. I was 4 when my parents took me to see Dune in the theater, and 7 when I saw the Elephant Man. I was a weird kid with permissive parents (they did get a babysitter for Blue Velvet though) and something in me was primed for Twin Peaks when I saw it at 10. I didn't even realize Lynch directed or anything, but something about it encapsulated for me my first decade. Childhood and all its uncanny moments, the idea that there's mystery lurking around every corner. The original series resonated with me for other reasons, but I have to say that everything after Fire Walk With Me is enjoyable, but I'm more detached.

I'm good at compartmentalizing, though, and I've already decided in advance that if there's nothing to touch my heart or give me that sense of wonder again I can disregard the new series as canon. I've really enjoyed this thread, and I am so sad that the Return is ruining Twin Peaks for anyone. Reluctant as I am to say it, I'm a teeny bit disappointed. Not profoundly, but as many of you have stated, the beating heart that brought us here in the first place seems to have acquired an arrhythmia.

Still watching to the bitter end.

[Weasel84]

Yeah I find it really weird that argumentative folk seem deadset on attacking fans who just comment that the emotional heart of Twin Peaks is not on form.

That cuts both ways, and I've been amused by a truckload of whinging and whining from both sides of the equation. At least we can be positive about the fact that Lynch's/Frost's baroque and batshit vision is totally uncompromising, and no matter how things turned out, they were never going to please everyone.

I have zero interest in attacking you for expressing your disappointment, however keep in mind that whether something is emotionally on form (or otherwise) is purely subjective. I'm not one of those 'you just don't get it' people, but I wholeheartedly believe that, by and large, you're either receptive to it or you aren't.

About Dougie they are like; 'id be happy to see Dougie for the entire 18 hours'. When we cut from episode 7 which has all the aspects of the show we liked, to episode 8 which is a hollow emotional hole, they sneer at the 'coffee and pie brigade' for not being able to appreciate a jarring chaotic hell hole.

Again, there's nothing wrong with feeling that way, however I think it goes without saying that not everybody likes the same aspects of the show that you do. Nothing to do with right or wrong, merely personal taste. I'm enjoying Coop-Dougie, and within the context of the show I feel it's the right move for him to slowly tough out his crippling catatonia.

Granted, the psychedelic, expressionistic delve into the mind's eye of the nuclear explosion came across as indulgent student-film wank (despite being brilliantly executed in a technical sense). Regardless, the sensations I experienced during other wonderland moments (namely the Giant/Señorita Dido sequence in the White Lodge/anteroom) were ecstatic, and all the more powerful because I didn't understand why I was feeling them in the first place.

I don't know man, it's like they are cheering for Mr C

Lol! Don't judge them for that. Mr. C is one of the most engaging characters in the show. His motives are sinister and murky in ways I find totally magnetic, and he somehow warps his slithery sleaze into darkly charismatic intrigue.

Obviously classic Coop will eventually emerge by degrees, although I can't say I'm in a tearing hurry to endure more of his G.I. boy scout affability. I like Coop, but he's a bit of a wet blanket, and I never found him terribly interesting.

It's not weird or nostalgic to want hope and emotional lightness to make its way back to Twin Peaks. That's just your natural instinct as a viewer who cares about the characters on screen. I personally think that all the jaded fans are the only ones with their heart in the right place, as Diane says to Cole 'Something is missing here.'

You're right. There's nothing weird about craving nostalgia and the emotional lightness of the first two seasons. That said, I think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face by approaching Season 3 with such expectations and preconceived notions.

Maybe it's just because I'm an enormous fan of Lost Highway, and that I'm partial to full-throttle, unadulterated, whiskey-neat Lynch in relentlessly nasty and acid form - but I think viewers who came to the very first episode braced for the likelihood that the tone would be completely different (especially considering everything Lynch has done in the last 25 years) did themselves a huge favour.

It's become fairly clear at this stage that The Return was never destined to serve up second helpings of coffee and cherry pie. Personally I'm glad to be done with all the aw-shucks-golly-gee-hokey-folksiness, and I'm ESPECIALLY glad that I'm not drowning in cornball soap-opera molasses.

A little of it here and there is endearing, but I find most of it to be lightweight trite (don't shoot me). Sometimes it's nice to have something radically new and transcendent instead of reiteration, repetition, and servile lip service to traditionally ardent fans.

Everything about this series says 'something is not right in Twin Peaks' and we can only hope that's the creators intent at this point ---but they have the foresight (and the skill at this point) to bring it back to emotional relatability.

Correct, although - and I know I'm sounding like a broken record - this totally depends on the viewer. I suspect the general inkling/mood of something being "off" was achieved by design, and quite frankly, it's this warped atmosphere that ripped its tenterhooks into me right from the start, and never let up.

I'd nonetheless argue there's still been some worthy offerings of emotional generosity in the show; just not as much as before. I prefer things this way, because then any emotional relatability present becomes more deeply felt (instead of dribbling into needlessly overwarmed schmaltz). When crafted this way, I'd also wager that the contrasts and textures of the show emerge more clearly.

For example: we've been treated to Bobby's sentimental reaction to Laura's portrait; Andy and Lucy's dopey skits; the emotional intelligence Hawk expresses toward the Log Lady; Janey-E caring for Coop-Dougie despite the pain that Dougie's terrible addictions caused the family; Coop-Dougie's childlike acceptance of everything around him and the warm compassion he expresses toward his surrogate son (ie. Dougie's son); the inclusion of Naido as a possible tender love letter and lyrical grace note to the Hibakusha (the surviving Japanese victims of the 1945 atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki)....etc. etc.

I've got to say, it's going to be hard with all the abstraction, suggested rape, extreme and gruesome death toll and all else -- to bring it back to a place of relatable empathy.

I actually love that Lynch/Frost have chucked all that stuff in; then again, I have a rather peculiar and esoteric palate that's stimulated by extremes.

Perhaps it's also related to the fact I have anxiety, but so much of this show appeals to my generally unsettled nature. Somehow I find it calming (which is a whopping contradiction in itself).

Peace, brother. I hope by the conclusion of the 18th episode, you'll have taken something positive (perhaps even profound) away from this world. But until then....drink full, and descend.

[LurkerAtTheThreshold]

Yeah I find it really weird that argumentative folk seem deadset on attacking fans who just comment that the emotional heart of Twin Peaks is not on form.

That cuts both ways, and I've been amused by a truckload of whinging and whining from both sides of the equation. At least we can be positive about the fact that Lynch's/Frost's baroque and batshit vision is totally uncompromising, and no matter how things turned out, they were never going to please everyone.

I have zero interest in attacking you for expressing your disappointment, however keep in mind that whether something is emotionally on form (or otherwise) is purely subjective. I'm not one of those 'you just don't get it' people, but I wholeheartedly believe that, by and large, you're either receptive to it or you aren't.

About Dougie they are like; 'id be happy to see Dougie for the entire 18 hours'. When we cut from episode 7 which has all the aspects of the show we liked, to episode 8 which is a hollow emotional hole, they sneer at the 'coffee and pie brigade' for not being able to appreciate a jarring chaotic hell hole.

Again, there's nothing wrong with feeling that way, however I think it goes without saying that not everybody likes the same aspects of the show that you do. Nothing to do with right or wrong, merely personal taste. I'm enjoying Coop-Dougie, and within the context of the show I feel it's the right move for him to slowly tough out his crippling catatonia.

Granted, the psychedelic, expressionistic delve into the mind's eye of the nuclear explosion came across as indulgent student-film wank (despite being brilliantly executed in a technical sense). Regardless, the sensations I experienced during other wonderland moments (namely the Giant/Señorita Dido sequence in the White Lodge/anteroom) were ecstatic, and all the more powerful because I didn't understand why I was feeling them in the first place.

I don't know man, it's like they are cheering for Mr C

Lol! Don't judge them for that. Mr. C is one of the most engaging characters in the show. His motives are sinister and murky in ways I find totally magnetic, and he somehow warps his slithery sleaze into darkly charismatic intrigue.

Obviously classic Coop will eventually emerge by degrees, although I can't say I'm in a tearing hurry to endure more of his G.I. boy scout affability. I like Coop, but he's a bit of a wet blanket, and I never found him terribly interesting.

It's not weird or nostalgic to want hope and emotional lightness to make its way back to Twin Peaks. That's just your natural instinct as a viewer who cares about the characters on screen. I personally think that all the jaded fans are the only ones with their heart in the right place, as Diane says to Cole 'Something is missing here.'

You're right. There's nothing weird about craving nostalgia and the emotional lightness of the first two seasons. That said, I think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face by approaching Season 3 with such expectations and preconceived notions.

Maybe it's just because I'm an enormous fan of Lost Highway, and that I'm partial to full-throttle, unadulterated, whiskey-neat Lynch in relentlessly nasty and acid form - but I think viewers who came to the very first episode braced for the likelihood that the tone would be completely different (especially considering everything Lynch has done in the last 25 years) did themselves a huge favour.

It's become fairly clear at this stage that The Return was never destined to serve up second helpings of coffee and cherry pie. Personally I'm glad to be done with all the aw-shucks-golly-gee-hokey-folksiness, and I'm ESPECIALLY glad that I'm not drowning in cornball soap-opera molasses.

A little of it here and there is endearing, but I find most of it to be lightweight trite (don't shoot me). Sometimes it's nice to have something radically new and transcendent instead of reiteration, repetition, and servile lip service to traditionally ardent fans.

Everything about this series says 'something is not right in Twin Peaks' and we can only hope that's the creators intent at this point ---but they have the foresight (and the skill at this point) to bring it back to emotional relatability.

Correct, although - and I know I'm sounding like a broken record - this totally depends on the viewer. I suspect the general inkling/mood of something being "off" was achieved by design, and quite frankly, it's this warped atmosphere that ripped its tenterhooks into me right from the start, and never let up.

I'd nonetheless argue there's still been some worthy offerings of emotional generosity in the show; just not as much as before. I prefer things this way, because then any emotional relatability present becomes more deeply felt (instead of dribbling into needlessly overwarmed schmaltz). When crafted this way, I'd also wager that the contrasts and textures of the show emerge more clearly.

For example: we've been treated to Bobby's sentimental reaction to Laura's portrait; Andy and Lucy's dopey skits; the emotional intelligence Hawk expresses toward the Log Lady; Janey-E caring for Coop-Dougie despite the pain that Dougie's terrible addictions caused the family; Coop-Dougie's childlike acceptance of everything around him and the warm compassion he expresses toward his surrogate son (ie. Dougie's son); the inclusion of Naido as a possible tender love letter and lyrical grace note to the Hibakusha (the surviving Japanese victims of the 1945 atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki)....etc. etc.

I've got to say, it's going to be hard with all the abstraction, suggested rape, extreme and gruesome death toll and all else -- to bring it back to a place of relatable empathy.

I actually love that Lynch/Frost have chucked all that stuff in; then again, I have a rather peculiar and esoteric palate that's stimulated by extremes.

Perhaps it's also related to the fact I have anxiety, but so much of this show appeals to my generally unsettled nature. Somehow I find it calming (which is a whopping contradiction in itself).

Peace, brother. I hope by the conclusion of the 18th episode, you'll have taken something positive (perhaps even profound) away from this world. But until then....drink full, and descend.

Interesting argument

[LurkerAtTheThreshold]

LOL! Hear, hear! Ain't it the truth!?

I can't for the life of me understand why people are so bewildered the new season has turned out this way. It wouldn't surprise me if some of these relentless whingers haven't seen any film or TV since 1990. Jesus Wept. If someone genuinely does their best to be open-minded and still comes away not liking the new material, I can understand that. But seriously, why do people want the same old crap?



Harsh, but true. A lot of the naysayers keep forgetting that this is full-bore art-house TV; it's not decoder TV, and it sure as hell isn't the maze in Westworld.

We seem to be currently living in the Baby Age of Backstory, Backsplaining, and Spoonfeeding. I think it's bad enough we got an origin-backstory in the most recent episode, but given the wondrous execution, it's a minor quibble on my behalf. Everything else is solid, spun gold, and the only thing I'm currently bemoaning is that there aren't 25 episodes instead of 18!

If Lynch (and, respectfully, Frost) gave everyone the same old reheated crap, mark my words - it would have been welcomed initially and then criticised after a few episodes for not coming up with anything new after 25 years. When the original stuff first aired, people had never seen anything like it. By the same token, why not have something completely fresh in 2017? Anything else would be shamefully predictable and sinfully boring.

Onward march! Drink full, and descend - or stop bitching and pass the gird to someone else.

Lol. This guy

Probably applauded when Richard Horne ran over the kid in the truck

LOL! I'm glad you enjoy my posts. Even when what I say is serious, I have a sense of humour and like to be a bit facetious

Haha, promise I didn't laugh at the kid's death! I wasn't sure what to feel when that happened. It's just that for reasons beyond my comprehension, I totally click with Season 3's general glacial, avant-garde brutalism. Granted, a lot of horrible stuff happens without rhyme or reason, but I like that. I like that sensation of things being inexplicably out of control, and likely unsolvable.

I'm also a twisted shithead who finds great comfort in dark and twisted places, because they make me feel alive. And that's where I think Lynch does his fiercest, full-stroke work. And if he can still do that and throw in the coffee and pie, why not!?

Why not indeed.

To be honest half the reason I'm in this thread is because I can't stand being pigeonholed into one camp or the other.
If something bores me I want to be able to say so without someone telling me I don't get it.

There's a lot I like about the new season but I don't see why you have to be 100percent or 0percent and if you don't stand on either side your some traitor to the integrity of the ongoing argument.

[mlsstwrt]

Yeah, so this thread is really serving its intended purpose.

[Weasel84]

To be honest half the reason I'm in this thread is because I can't stand being pigeonholed into one camp or the other.
If something bores me I want to be able to say so without someone telling me I don't get it.

Of course! Stuff all this political correctness, say what you damn well think. It makes for a meatier discussion.

Unbelievable, I was thinking exactly the same thing earlier today. I'm here for literally the same reason as you. When birds flock together, they just end up reinforcing and validating their own subjective opinions. And that's boring! I'd rather say how I feel and have tomatoes thrown at me

There's a lot I like about the new season but I don't see why you have to be 100percent or 0percent and if you don't stand on either side your some traitor to the integrity of the ongoing argument.

Well that's because you've got at least half the brain of a goat, and can look outside your own perspective (unlike quite a few others). Not everything is necessarily a "you love it or you hate it" scenario. That's such simplistic nonsense.

I also haven't loved absolutely every single moment and scene, but that will be the case for even this season's most hardcore admirers. It's a challenge, but a challenge that, IMO, is more than worth the wild ride.

For me, even that insufferable sweeping scene had it's place (although I was gunning for the guy to sweep everything into one big stack, then sweep the individual piles back out again into their original configurations just for the hell of it). That REALLY would have pissed off the traditionalists!

[LurkerAtTheThreshold]

Yeah, so this thread is really serving its intended purpose.

I do feel a bit mobbed in here. Sorry if im encouraging the people who come in here just to abuse the disappointed.

I don't really understand what's going on with this community.

I feel like if this was any other show and someone just said 'I found the first episode boring and not engaging' that would not cause all this vitriol.
It would just be normal.

It seems like part of the 25 revamp has caused people to be really fervent over what side of the fence they are on.

But yeah.
I don't know. I honestly have come round to the show a lot more.
I do think that's mainly because I've been so obsessed I probably would have liked anything that came out eventually. Even if it's shit it's still a continuation of something I held really dearly.

But I still really empathise with everyone in this thread.

I can still remember the sheer expectation I had and how depressed I was after episode one and two because it just reallly failed to come close to what I had hoped for.
Honestly though, what are your exact feelings about the show at this point?

[waferwhitemilk]

Widespread critical acclaim and rave user reviews immediately upon release are usually a bad sign imo, if i may be so elitist. Look at FWWM which is a true masterpiece, and how it was received at the time of release versus how it is looked upon now with the passage of time. Yes, the passage of time really is like a coffeefilter, selecting the good from the bad, the wheat from the chaff. Has the general public anno 2017 acquired such great taste all of a sudden? Somehow I doubt it! It reminds me of that roman senator who asked "did i say something wrong? " when the crowd cheered. Cheerio.

[LurkerAtTheThreshold]

Widespread critical acclaim and rave user reviews immediately upon release are usually a bad sign imo, if i may be so elitist. Look at FWWM which is a true masterpiece, and how it was received at the time of release versus how it is looked upon now with the passage of time. Yes, the passage of time really is like a coffeefilter, selecting the good from the bad, the wheat from the chaff. Has the general public anno 2017 acquired such great taste all of a sudden? Somehow I doubt it! It reminds me of that roman senator who asked "did i say something wrong? " when the crowd cheered. Cheerio.

Yeah I'm suspicious of this too.
Critics seem so, almost pressured to praise it.
I think it also speaks to the popular culture of the period.
Obviously a lot of mainstream television has grown very predictable. People want to be shocked and uncomfortable by something genuinely groundbreaking.

But in my opinion, this season isn't as groundbreaking as people are making it out to be. The shocking stuff is actually fairly derivative. All the episode 8 stuff is rigged from here there and everywhere. The white sands bomb is so nostalgic and reminiscent of Kubrick and last century.
Many people compared episode 6 to the work of Neil Breen
People want this to be something that it's not.
The only ground breaking thing about this, seems to be the self sabotage of the creators who seem to have taken a prime time moment to parody themselves.

I don't know if it will be seen as purely negative in time in terms of reception. But once the hype dies down people will certainly be able to see it in better perspective. Laugh at the terrible acting and the cheesy sci fi plots.

I think it may still be a cult classic, purely in terms of this being an Ed Wood style catastrophe on an epic scale. An absurd space opera born of a murder mystery that never had to be, but that was.

It may even turn out to pave the way for younger film makers to create art that is genuinely new and profound.
The Dougie jones stuff definitely seems to have a counter cultural message about life. It's just the forum that it has taken root in that is stange.

For me it would be like if a new Season of game of thrones suddenly decided to be really weird and self parodying. Setting itself in modern times and having one of the dragons studying medicine and law.

People will eventually go... wow... what a ridiculous load of shit that was... but also... how interesting that they did that.

[mtsi]

Great post. People definitely want this to be something it's not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[djsunyc]

Yeah, so this thread is really serving its intended purpose.

I do feel a bit mobbed in here. Sorry if im encouraging the people who come in here just to abuse the disappointed.

I don't really understand what's going on with this community.

I feel like if this was any other show and someone just said 'I found the first episode boring and not engaging' that would not cause all this vitriol.
It would just be normal.

It seems like part of the 25 revamp has caused people to be really fervent over what side of the fence they are on.

But yeah.
I don't know. I honestly have come round to the show a lot more.
I do think that's mainly because I've been so obsessed I probably would have liked anything that came out eventually. Even if it's shit it's still a continuation of something I held really dearly.

But I still really empathise with everyone in this thread.

I can still remember the sheer expectation I had and how depressed I was after episode one and two because it just reallly failed to come close to what I had hoped for.
Honestly though, what are your exact feelings about the show at this point?

it's a reflection of society (especially US society). tougher to find middle ground anymore - lines are drawn and folks choose a side and that's it. look at the US political scene at the moment.