Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[Snailhead]

See, visual effects often come down to personal taste, because I find that the effects in the original Jurassic Park film hold up to this day. That's because they mostly used animatronics and only used the CGI sparingly, and masked the limitations with lighting and rain. Those dinosaurs feel more real to me than anything from the sequel films, not to mention many special effects in films that have followed it.

Many of the effects in The Return don't work for me, but the frogbug was a success - it thoroughly creeped me out and I was riveted by it.

[LateReg]

Hmmm. The roach/frog looked as good as anything I've ever seen. Jurassic Park, whatever. IMO.

Well, the original Jurassic Park effects are very dated today. They've been surpassed by many miles.

Like I said, as good as anything. I see everything, so I'm not limiting myself to Jurassic Park. Jurassic World, if you will. Although I admit to still thinking Jurassic Park's effects are as good as Jurassic World's, or 2005 King Kong's, etc.

[referendum]

the Gee-Whizz-Guru that he plays and is presented as

well, when does the version of yourself that you play become yourself? I think this is why he uses people like Chrysta Bell and the youtube mockney accents guy. He is interested in blurring the margins of who people are ( as he sees it) and how they present themselves or are presented. He likes outliers and people who are very specific. Cosmic consciousness and the woodpeople and all that are a kind of hive mind. Lynch dreams of being part of this mind, and hates it, but what is are his dreams like? ( the one he wants to actually show people) . They are like no on else, but they are very straightforward. The mystery is there is no mystery. You are not me. You are someone else. Who, doesn't matter.

[LateReg]

See, visual effects often come down to personal taste, because I find that the effects in the original Jurassic Park film hold up to this day. That's because they mostly used animatronics and only used the CGI sparingly, and masked the limitations with lighting and rain. Those dinosaurs feel more real to me than anything from the sequel films, not to mention many special effects in films that have followed it.

Many of the effects in The Return don't work for me, but the frogbug was a success - it thoroughly creeped me out and I was riveted by it.

Exactly. It's the abundance of practical effects and smart use of CGI in Jurassic Park that make it hold up better than most things to this day. They do feel more real. And yes, I thought the frogbug was surprisingly "real."

[Gabriel]

Regarding the special effects - yeah a lot of them aren't great. I don't know I feel about them. But, again, there is a precedent.

Well come on, that's hardly an apt comparison.

The effects remind me of the kind of animations created by Walerian Borowczyk, Jan Švankmajer and Terry Gilliam (who acknowledges he was heavily influenced by Borowczyk!) Remember Lynch trained in Eastern Europe.

[mtwentz]

Ok, I have to admit to being a little confused. Do we know anything about the Frog Moth other than what we saw on the screen on that particular episode? As far as I know, that scene could be completely metaphorical and as far as I know, we have not established the identity of the girl.

I think the fact that everyone is having a hard time to even describe what Season three is, is enough cause to say what it isn't...

One can't just write down a bunch of ideas and throw them out unconnected and hope people can follow or even devine any meaning.

I have a theory for this or a theory for that.... That would be fine if there was a main string to follow... but there just isn't. Like an abstract puzzle where there is no guide as to what is the correct solution.

Well, you have a point in that Season 3 is not a 'sound bite' ('Who killed Laura Palmer'). It's more complicated than that because there are two main plotlines (one for good Coop, the other for Bad Coop). But if I had to synthesize the two plots into one description, it would be 'The Return is about Cooper struggling to regain his place in the world before his evil doppelganger takes it from him forever'

There are also some high stakes shenanigans regarding coordinates in Twin Peaks, which presumably will lead to the gates of the Lodge being opened or something really big like that. We can't yet see that part of the plot yet or hear it, but we can feel it. And it feels epic.

[LateReg]

Regarding the special effects - yeah a lot of them aren't great. I don't know I feel about them. But, again, there is a precedent.

Well come on, that's hardly an apt comparison.

The effects remind me of the kind of animations created by Walerian Borowczyk, Jan Švankmajer and Terry Gilliam (who acknowledges he was heavily influenced by Borowczyk!) Remember Lynch trained in Eastern Europe.

Very good call. I think the effects are what they are and what they are supposed to be, and they fit Lynch's background and artwork. I also remember you saying something about Borowczyk before and wanted to tell you that you're a hero for being into him!

[N. Needleman]

Exactly. The kitschy, janky FX have always been his thing; the strangeness and artificiality, like Laura practically getting yanked out of the frame in part 2 in such a disturbingly weird Wizard of Oz-esque way. When he wants a much more sophisticated effect - part 8, and IMO the vortex last week - he uses that instead.

[Gabriel]

Very good call. I think the effects are what they are and what they are supposed to be, and they fit Lynch's background and artwork. I also remember you saying something about Borowczyk before and wanted to tell you that you're a hero for being into him!

Ha! Thanks! I was one of the Kickstarter contributors who funded the restoration of a load of his features and shorts some years back. I love my 'Camera Obscura' Blu-ray, DVD and book set! I think it's worth a few bob now too, but it's not for sale!! His short film with the two dwarfs is a comedy classic.

[N. Needleman]

How can you be a fan of the original yet not mind that it gets corrupted for a return?

Because we fundamentally disagree with you about whether or not it has been corrupted.

[mtwentz]

Regarding the special effects - yeah a lot of them aren't great. I don't know I feel about them. But, again, there is a precedent.

Well come on, that's hardly an apt comparison.

The effects remind me of the kind of animations created by Walerian Borowczyk, Jan Švankmajer and Terry Gilliam (who acknowledges he was heavily influenced by Borowczyk!) Remember Lynch trained in Eastern Europe.

Yes, I thought the traveling through the electrical socket (the part where his shoes did not make it through) was very reminiscent of Gilliam's work with Monty Python.

[laughingpinecone]

Delurking for statistics' sake:
There's plenty of praise for TPTR on hipster&younger-skewing Tumblr, like on all other social media, but there are disappointed voices too. Probably growing. Of course it's hard to gauge the response in a fanbase at large because the superfans will be vocal whether they like it or not, while the rest will just shut up and move in if they don't like something. But I see at least one "the new Twin Peaks sure sucks, huh" post most days.
What I'm not seeing is new fans, to be honest. The current active, creative fandom is still the same old farts as before, plus maybe a couple new voices interested in meta and character analysis. And a very active and passionate Albert/Harry fringe but they clearly weren't brought in by The Return.

But how can you like it when it literally corrupts the original material so completely?

It corrupts your reading of the original material. TP was always a grab bag of moods and themes. Some we consider central, others incidental. There are people, myself included, who fell in love first and foremost with the strain of the old show, all its discomfort and lack of agency and fuzzy connections, that was faithfully amplified by FWWM first and now by TPTR. There are people (my entire Skype group chat, for one) who popped the biggest bottles when the rumors said that half or more of the new show would take place outside the town. It's not a hypothetical situation like someone here mused many pages ago (this thread is moving fast, sorry): it happened and we cheered.
These people, myself included, have been incredibly lucky to find their priorities aligned with the creators'. It was by no means a given, none of us knew what Frost and Lynch considered the heart of Twin Peaks and what was ancillary to them, what they would follow and what they would discard. But this was Twin Peaks for us, as our genuine opinion, and that's a literal fact.

As a final well-wishing addendum then I'll scoot off... I've been in the same situation as the Profoundly Disappointed many, many times. My fave book got a movie adaptation I loathe, fave game series jumped the shark, other fave book came back years later to subvert all the main themes, etc, I'm a picky bastard with the worst luck. And it does taint the feelings for the original... for a time. Years maybe, but not forever. You'll manage to compartmentalize soon enough, I hope you will. It's yours, it will always be yours.
The part that sucks and will continue to suck is that loathing a big, beloved, influential part of a franchise makes it awkward to be in fandom. Personally, in all the aforementioned examples, I either found niches of like-minded fans to chill with or stopped interacting altogether.
But I still love the works I used to love before they stopped aligning with my tastes. That doesn't go away, in the long run. All the best, and thanks for the interesting tread.

[N. Needleman]

Most of the FX remind me very much of Švankmajer, etc and I'm sure that's deliberate. The outlet journey, OTOH, I felt looked very sophisticated. (Incidentally, I also think the CG on Jurassic Park still outshines most of today's.)

I don't get the complaints about stuff like Jack Rabbits' Palace - I thought those forest sequences were beyond stunning, some of the most deliriously verdant and gorgeous in a series which often has Lynch veering wildly between boldly artificial fantasy elements and deliberately highlighted banality, not so much stunning wildlife. I was reminded me of Peter Weir's Picnic at Hanging Rock. When people leap to saying it's the digital that failed that sequence, I honestly have to say it feels like that's coming up because people have never let go of Lynch deciding to do this show on digital, and are viewing everything through that complaint. I know the show isn't color-timed exactly the same as 1991, that it's going for a different palate and style and it's to anyone's taste whether they like that. But I don't think digital renders sequences like that sterile. That's the exact opposite of how I felt about those scenes.

[LateReg]

Very good call. I think the effects are what they are and what they are supposed to be, and they fit Lynch's background and artwork. I also remember you saying something about Borowczyk before and wanted to tell you that you're a hero for being into him!

Ha! Thanks! I was one of the Kickstarter contributors who funded the restoration of a load of his features and shorts some years back. I love my 'Camera Obscura' Blu-ray, DVD and book set! I think it's worth a few bob now too, but it's not for sale!! His short film with the two dwarfs is a comedy classic.

I, um, paid 460 bucks for it just over a year ago. Fantastic box set!

[N. Needleman]

What I'm not seeing is new fans, to be honest.

Give it time. There's more to it than social media. They're out there - I've seen them. And they'll be passing this show and the old one along to each other in college and so on for the next 25 years, just as I did to my friends with the shitty old VHS boxset.