Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[Rialto]

Yeah, I think (generalising massively) male viewers will tend towards 'oh, I didn't even notice all the ladies were naked and the guys weren't', but female viewers will pick it up, and often feel alienated by it.

Someone did say a few pages back something along the lines of 'does it matter if David Lynch likes the naked ladies, if he's not harming anyone', but the drip, drip, drip of objectification of women in art and media does harm us. It throws us out of our suspension of disbelief, in art, and it filters down into how we're treated in real life.

This is why you see such anger and backlash from feminists over every little infraction right now. It's like, the case in point might not seem like 'a big deal' on its own, but every single woman out there has had a constant, life long, water torture style 'drip, drip, drip' for so long, one more thing happens and it just unleashes a wave of fury.

I personally am currently avoiding many shows that are critically raved about, because I cannot stomach one more show where women are naked victims (The Fall, Luther, True Detective).

True Detective was a let down for me on two major counts: first, the naked women artfully posed with antlers, etc - seen it before, sick to the back teeth of this kind of 'art'.

Secondly, Woody Harrelson (as exec producer) casting himself opposite a gorgeous 22 yr old love interest, with lingering shots of her naked body, while he's mostly clothed.

My husband kept saying, 'No, wait, there'll be a point to it in the story, like there's a reason she's so fucked up she'd want to have an affair with a fat, old, washed up alcoholic.'

I'm like 'just wait and see, there will be no point to this except she looks good naked.'

Guess who was right?

I had no problem with the nudity in Blue Velvet actually - it was extreme, but it had a story point. It illustrated Dorothy's extreme abuse and torment.

But random tired old tropey naked women, a la The Return, really turns me off from the material. It feels like a big old sign saying 'not for you'. And I suspect many women feel the same.

[IcedOver]

I'm just dipping a toe into this, but in response to the post above, SJW sentiments and feminism have no place in the evaluation of art. If Lynch or any artist wants to show naked women just because he likes it, that's his prerogative.

[Rialto]

IcedOver, someone asked a few posts back how the female nudity/ general portrayal of women in TPTR made female viewers feel. I gave my subjective view on how it makes me feel. Also, art is not separate from real life, it's a living part of it.

And SJW is a shitty term mostly used by people who want to shut down female equality, so maybe don't use it, unless that's you.

[dronerstone]

Would be real fun to see the reactions if it were the other way round. Half-naked or naked men all over the place, but most women casually/normally clothed. Especially by a female director.

[Rialto]

Would be real fun to see the reactions if it were the other way round. Half-naked or naked men all over the place, but most women casually/normally clothed. Especially by a female director.

It would look totally bizarre, wouldn't it?

[Dreamy Audrey]

Would be real fun to see the reactions if it were the other way round. Half-naked or naked men all over the place, but most women casually/normally clothed. Especially by a female director.

It would look totally bizarre, wouldn't it?

And add to that an old unattractive female character with several 20-something year-old attractive male love interests

[Deep Thought]

I'm just dipping a toe into this, but in response to the post above, SJW sentiments and feminism have no place in the evaluation of art. If Lynch or any artist wants to show naked women just because he likes it, that's his prerogative.

Yes, of course he can. It will be open to artistic criticism though, yes? Or is that off limits?

[sylvia_north]

SJW is a lazy slur, stuff it. Muted. But there's a thread for this angle of the conversation. Nonacademic fanboys really don't like it.

off topic

Spoiler:

Would be real fun to see the reactions if it were the other way round. Half-naked or naked men all over the place, but most women casually/normally clothed. Especially by a female director.

It would look totally bizarre, wouldn't it?

And add to that an old unattractive female character with several 20-something year-old attractive male love interests

If I was DL's age I might find him appealing to be fair, maybe not the teeth. Sarah as the next BOB is a shocking reversal, is that another reason it's offputting, even unconsciously, to people?
Female serial killers, super rare thing. They use poison and are money motivated typically. I assume she's done this kinda thing before it looks like a pretty well practiced move.

lol the toothy smile smh

[dronerstone]

Only if Sarah had a 20 year old loverboy.

[sylvia_north]

Spoiler:

Only if Sarah had a 20 year old loverboy.

Sounds silly, doesn't it? Like, what would she get out of it? (rhetorically) That's why it's not a 'thing' out in the world. Like female serial killers. edit: And female johns/punters (also statistically insignificant, doesn't negate the symptom or root cause of trafficking or the abuse of prostitutes.) No need for control.

And how art is made affects the art, obviously. Film is an industry, not a guy with a paintbrush. You can't pretend that doesn't exist. And the question was asked about female viewership so I explained. There's no way to tiptoe around those subjects to preserve snowflakey sensibilities.

Anyway, as you were. This is just going to attract more trolls. *the personal is political

Regarding the decrease in violence conversation, this is a great book https://www.amazon.com/Better-Angels-Ou ... 0143122010

[yaxomoxay]

Just my 2c but I don't think that many men sexualized the eyeless Naido. I mean, I love naked women and all that, but by God she was more disturbing than arousing (she wasn't at all).
If I had to be honest I think that Lynch played the disturbing card on purpose, it was almost a paradox.


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[sylvia_north]

off topic

Spoiler:

Just my 2c but I don't think that many men sexualized the eyeless Naido. I mean, I love naked women and all that, but by God she was more disturbing than arousing (she wasn't at all).
If I had to be honest I think that Lynch played the disturbing card on purpose, it was almost a paradox.

No one suggested it was pornographic though. Dorothy Vallens naked body was also disturbing.

Unpacking these things is for the other thread.

[yaxomoxay]

Just my 2c but I don't think that many men sexualized the eyeless Naido. I mean, I love naked women and all that, but by God she was more disturbing than arousing (she wasn't at all).
If I had to be honest I think that Lynch played the disturbing card on purpose, it was almost a paradox.

No one suggested it was pornographic though

Understood, but to me the scene couldn't have been objectifying because the focus was more on the disturbing part than anything else.


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[sylvia_north]

off topic

Spoiler:

Just my 2c but I don't think that many men sexualized the eyeless Naido. I mean, I love naked women and all that, but by God she was more disturbing than arousing (she wasn't at all).
If I had to be honest I think that Lynch played the disturbing card on purpose, it was almost a paradox.

No one suggested it was pornographic though

Understood, but to me the scene couldn't have been objectifying because the focus was more on the disturbing part than anything else.

Not sexual objectification except for the fact that her sex is the reason she was naked

[yaxomoxay]

No one suggested it was pornographic though

Understood, but to me the scene couldn't have been objectifying because the focus was more on the disturbing part than anything else.

Not sexual objectification

Can you explain ? (Honest question)


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