Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[BOB1]

This is another great post. But I want to focus on the question about Lynch's view on humanity and whether it's changed... I don't know about Lynch as a person cause I haven't really been interested in his personal actions and views. However, his films seem to me to have evolved into seriously more pesimistic and depressing.
From Eraserhead to FWWM all his films had some positive touch at the end if not strictly a happy ending (that is, except for Twin Peaks Ep.29!). Lost Highway was a shock to me, partly because it concluded in such a disaster, too. But then there was still Straight Story to show that Lynch (the "middle" Lynch) is a man who sees demons, yet he sees angels, too. But Mulholland again - a horrifying suicide and silencio, nothing more to say. I didnt really understand Inland but surely it didn't seem like an optimistic film to me, even though I remember something good happened there in the story inside the story. The Return looks nasty, too, in terms of "view on humanity". So conclusion is - Lynch conveys a more pesimistic view on the world as he grows more mature as an artist. Strange thing, considering his transcendental meditation drive but that still might be a completely different thing. I always heard he was a warm, funny person, yet he liked to portray horrible things happening, even if he managed to find good endings to them.

Oops sorry, I have to stop writing now! There were so many interesting points here... I wish I could relate to some of them. See you!

[mlsstwrt]

Thanks Bob1, interesting to hear you agree with some of this.

I sort of got the impression Lynch was a really happy, at peace individual but many of you here know much more about him than I do so maybe I was wrong. I'm finding The Return quite bleak though, I have to say. Not that bleak can't make for incredible television. I just finished rewatching The Sopranos and it was even clearer how Chase basically despises all of the characters, especially Tony.

You can still see compassion that Lynch has but, wow, there's a lot of ugliness. I'm saying this yet again but there was a time I would have given anything to live in Twin Peaks. Not anymore, not THIS Twin Peaks.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Thanks Bob1, interesting to hear you agree with some of this.

I sort of got the impression Lynch was a really happy, at peace individual but many of you here know much more about him than I do so maybe I was wrong. I'm finding The Return quite bleak though, I have to say. Not that bleak can't make for incredible television. I just finished rewatching The Sopranos and it was even clearer how Chase basically despises all of the characters, especially Tony.

You can still see compassion that Lynch has but, wow, there's a lot of ugliness. I'm saying this yet again but there was a time I would have given anything to live in Twin Peaks. Not anymore, not THIS Twin Peaks.

DKL likes to present his anger as a thing of the past, but I think it's pretty tough to deny that the darkness in his films acts as a type of therapy, particularly the way he revels in creating Frank Booth/Bobby Peru/Richard Horne-type characters. That type of anger, violence and rage is obviously an ingredient in the mixing-pot of his unconscious. By all accounts he seems to mostly keep it in check in everyday life (a few outbursts on the IE set aside), and releases it in an (arguably) healthy way through his work. The only mental issue I've heard him admit to is "a hair" of agoraphobia which leads to him not wanting to go out much, in The Art Life (and indeed, most of what we see of his life in that film seems like a borderline-recluse, rambling around his house alone, creating stuff and occasionally playing with Lula. I think the only time we see him leave the house is a short car ride).

Of course, none of us really knows the guy, and we only see what he chooses to show us. But there is an interesting quote from Jack Fisk (who probably knows DKL as well as anyone alive) on the Criterion MD documentary from 2014: he says (jokingly? half-jokingly?) that if DKL didn't have his art, someone would probably be dead. There's also that quote from Mark in GQ (?) a few months ago where he says DKL has gone through a lot, and turned it into art...when confronted with Mark's quote, DKL seemed perplexed and wondered what Mark thinks he's gone through.

So, bottom line: who the hell knows. He does seem like a genuinely good, peace-loving guy; but like all human beings, he's complex and prone to "strange and unproductive thinking," as evidenced by the nightmarishness of much of his work. If he can release his anger and depression through art -- in the process giving many audience members a way of confronting some of the ugliness that may haunt our own subconsciouses -- then there are probably worse ways to spend a life. And, FWIW, I do think we're heading for some sort of cathartic burst of hope of the type you're missing. It's just taking a lot longer to get there because this work is 18 hours long. Personally, I've found much of the "Dougie" material beautifully humanitarian in a Being There-type way, although I know many viewers have written those sequences off as cheap comedy.

[mtwentz]

Thanks Bob1, interesting to hear you agree with some of this.

I sort of got the impression Lynch was a really happy, at peace individual but many of you here know much more about him than I do so maybe I was wrong. I'm finding The Return quite bleak though, I have to say. Not that bleak can't make for incredible television. I just finished rewatching The Sopranos and it was even clearer how Chase basically despises all of the characters, especially Tony.

You can still see compassion that Lynch has but, wow, there's a lot of ugliness. I'm saying this yet again but there was a time I would have given anything to live in Twin Peaks. Not anymore, not THIS Twin Peaks.

It doesn't seem any bleaker than the original to me and definitely not bleaker than FWWM. A lot of humor and light in the Dougie storyline and to he good guys in Sheriff's Department are still on right side of the law. There IS more violence though and Richard is pretty bleak all by himself.

[Trudy Chelgren]

mlsstwrt wrote:

Thanks Bob1, interesting to hear you agree with some of this.

I sort of got the impression Lynch was a really happy, at peace individual but many of you here know much more about him than I do so maybe I was wrong. I'm finding The Return quite bleak though, I have to say. Not that bleak can't make for incredible television. I just finished rewatching The Sopranos and it was even clearer how Chase basically despises all of the characters, especially Tony.

You can still see compassion that Lynch has but, wow, there's a lot of ugliness. I'm saying this yet again but there was a time I would have given anything to live in Twin Peaks. Not anymore, not THIS Twin Peaks.

This is interesting. I always felt that The Sopranos was a shining example of humanity in TV, and that Chase loved the complexity in the characters; their capability for empathy and trust as well as apathy and cruelty. That show was very talkative, and a lot of it's colour was in it's words, but it's uses of non-verbal communication, all the asides and glances, were masterfully realized. There are so many outstanding ideas in that show, for me. Both bleak and uplifting.

The first two seasons of Twin Peaks, and FWWM, have a palpable, immediately identifiable tone, despite the fact that it could still surprise you. I often feel that The Return, like much of Lynch's recent work, places the absence of tone and connection front and centre. Characters can be impossible to read, the silence doesn't help. I've loved The Return so far, but damn, is it elusive.

[SpookySculder]

Looking ahead, I wonder if they are going to start peeling off some of the characters/plotlines very soon, or if we're still going to have a fragmented show with multiple locations and characters all the way until the final episode. I'm pretty sure several hours will be devoted to some kind of supernatural showdown, so that leaves little time for the old cast to get any significant screen time.

This truly is my fear. I really hope there is significant screen time left for the old cast. At the rate it's going, It already feels like all media outlets (magazines, tv spots, etc) that have used the original cast to promote The Return are guilty of false advertising.

[waferwhitemilk]

Only watched first 20 minutes or so of epi 11 so far, but:

- Norma sitting at her paperwork again is getting very Ed Woodian, with the Bela Lugosi shot used over n over again. Bela Lugosi was dead tho, what's Lynch's excuse?
- The cgi black hole was straight out of the True Detective season 1 finale, which i was also severely disappointed with. Guess Lynch must've liked that ending tho..
- The kids throwing ball and following it into the woods is a classic horror trope i guess, for example also used in Sleepaway Camp; the shot of the kids took too long tho and wasn't helped by the fact that we haven't seen these kids ever before; the violent image of Mariam felt exploitative to me
- The scene with Bobby, Shelly and their daughter in the RR diner was some horrible wooden acting and looked very cheap n digital

Looking forward to watching the rest after work!

[Skip Bittman]

Only watched first 20 minutes or so of epi 11 so far, but:

- Norma sitting at her paperwork again is getting very Ed Woodian, with the Bela Lugosi shot used over n over again. Bela Lugosi was dead tho, what's Lynch's excuse?

Peggy Lipton is old and standing around for hours and hours and hours as they film languid diner scenes would be harsh on her so he does her a kindness? At least she doesn't need morphine with a demerol chaser.

[mtwentz]

Looking ahead, I wonder if they are going to start peeling off some of the characters/plotlines very soon, or if we're still going to have a fragmented show with multiple locations and characters all the way until the final episode. I'm pretty sure several hours will be devoted to some kind of supernatural showdown, so that leaves little time for the old cast to get any significant screen time.

This truly is my fear. I really hope there is significant screen time left for the old cast. At the rate it's going, It already feels like all media outlets (magazines, tv spots, etc) that have used the original cast to promote The Return are guilty of false advertising.

The old cast IS getting significant screen time. Most of the major stars of the new show are from the old cast (Coop, Albert, Gordon, Hawk, Andy, Lucy, etc.). Naomi Watts and Laura Dern are the notable exceptions.

To think every returning character from the old show is going to get the same screen time they did in the original is just unrealistic. true, Laura Palmer has been largely absent from the show outside of episode 2, but I suspect she will become quite prominent in the latter 1/3. (Her character is dead after all, and we would not expect her to have even been a major character for The Return were it not for the 'see you again in 25 years' line).

[SpookySculder]

Other than Kyle, Michael and maybe Richard Beymer, most of the
old cast has not been featured significantly up until this point. Sure, we've seen a few scenes with Russ and some,
(dare I call them filler scenes) with Harry and Kimmy , but *significant*? The original cast has not been utlilzed.

It took a long time to get something with Dana. Up until last night, we didn't see much of Madchen. Glad we finally got something.

We've only seen glimpses or (nothing yet) of
Peggy, James, Wendy, Everett, Sherilyn, Ray, Grace, Sheryl, etc....


Just doesn't feel substantial, imo. And as I said in previous posts, maybe it wouldn't feel so frustrating if
it was balanced out differently.

Looking ahead, I wonder if they are going to start peeling off some of the characters/plotlines very soon, or if we're still going to have a fragmented show with multiple locations and characters all the way until the final episode. I'm pretty sure several hours will be devoted to some kind of supernatural showdown, so that leaves little time for the old cast to get any significant screen time.

This truly is my fear. I really hope there is significant screen time left for the old cast. At the rate it's going, It already feels like all media outlets (magazines, tv spots, etc) that have used the original cast to promote The Return are guilty of false advertising.

The old cast IS getting significant screen time. Most of the major stars of the new show are from the old cast (Coop, Albert, Gordon, Hawk, Andy, Lucy, etc.). Naomi Watts and Laura Dern are the notable exceptions.

To think every returning character from the old show is going to get the same screen time they did in the original is just unrealistic. true, Laura Palmer has been largely absent from the show outside of episode 2, but I suspect she will become quite prominent in the latter 1/3. (Her character is dead after all, and we would not expect her to have even been a major character for The Return were it not for the 'see you again in 25 years' line).

[waferwhitemilk]

Well, just got home and watched the rest of epi 11 and it's now very clear to me that, beyond a shadow of doubt -from the whole cast of cardboard characters via the "viva las vegas" cover to the Kellogs Raisin Bran product placement- Lynch is taking the piss! Which i actually can appreciate and as an elaborate joke it's quite an achievement and must've taken some balls to do. I guess you could see it as a comment on the artificiality of modern life or as a parody of Hollywood and tv narratives or whatever, or a somewhat cruel trolling of fandom & fan theories. Either that or he's totally lost the plot!

[Framed_Angel]

...to the Kellogs Raisin Bran product placement- Lynch is taking the piss! Which i actually can appreciate and as an elaborate joke ...a comment on the artificiality of modern life or as a parody of Hollywood and tv narratives or whatever, or a somewhat cruel trolling of fandom & fan theories. Either that or he's totally lost the plot!

I posted this over in the part 11 thread but as to your suggestion of Bran Flakes as product placement: have you considered in light of what his brother was eating, a different color cereal resembling cream corn?
The resemblance to garmanbozia got my attention from the very opening of the scene> I waited for some verification what Rodney was eating might be Corn Pops, still deliberately resembling corn as if to "troll" the viewer. But then when Belushi brother lifted to his own cereal bowl a box of bran flakes, that to me nowhere resembled cornpops or yellow-anything, I was left w/ the nagging curiosity what Rodney's bowl held (IMO most likely a CornPops cereal instead, his own brand, the box out of camera view in that case) and I did feel like I was getting trolled

[waferwhitemilk]

Another example of a trolly joke is basically copying the ending of 'Se7en' but replacing the content of the cardboard box (a severed head) with a cherry pie.. or letting Dougie run wild with a throwaway Cartman joke in one of the Southpark episodes where he teaches Jimmy how to talk to girls ("just keep repeating the last three words they say").

[mtwentz]

Other than Kyle, Michael and maybe Richard Beymer, most of the ld cast has not been featured significantly up until this point. Sure, we've seen a few scenes with Russ and some,
(dare I call them filler scenes) with Harry and Kimmy , but *significant*? The original cast has not been utlilzed.

It took a long time to get something with Dana. Up until last night, we didn't see much of Madchen. Glad we finally got something.

We've only seen glimpses or (nothing yet) of
Peggy, James, Wendy, Everett, Sherilyn, Ray, Grace, Sheryl, etc....


Just doesn't feel substantial, imo. And as I said in previous posts, maybe it wouldn't feel so frustrating if
it was balanced out differently.

First of all, it would seem more significant if Michael Ontkean had signed on, but since he didn't, there's nothing Lynch and Frost can do about it. Ontkean's screen time is thus used up by newcomer Robert Forster.

Ray and Sheryl's characters are dead- you would not expect them to have significant screen time.

Everett, Richard and Wendy have been out of movies and television acting for a number of years. The fact that we are seeing them at all is a great blessing.

James is the actor everyone claims they don't want to see anyway, but now that he's been absent, suddenly he's the most wanted man in Twin Peaks .

And Sherilyn, from what we've heard, had her role reduced because she took a hard negotiating stance for her contract and missed several days of filming.

All in all, I think we're doing pretty darn good with the old cast. I believe Laura and Sarah are going to move to center stage at some point and James Marshall has stated his character plays a key role. Similar 're-boots' might have relegated someone like Kyle MacLachlan to a supporting role, in favor of a 'fresher' face.

[mtwentz]

Another example of a trolly joke is basically copying the ending of 'Se7en' but replacing the content of the cardboard box (a severed head) with a cherry pie.. or letting Dougie run wild with a throwaway Cartman joke in one of the Southpark episodes where he teaches Jimmy how to talk to girls ("just keep repeating the last three words they say").

Twin Peaks always referenced other arts of work (and real life events). The One Armed Man was taken from "The Fugitive". Madeleine Ferguson (look alike cousin) was a tribute to Hitchcock. Dale Cooper is based on D.B. Cooper. 'Laura Palmer' is a reference to the film 'Laura'.

I have never heard of filmmakers putting their heart and soul and money into a project just so they could play "trolly jokes" on fans.