Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[David Locke]

I feel like I have come around to love and accept the series a lot more now.

First I hated it, then I watched it for what it is, so bad it's kind of funny thingy (and sad at the same time).
Then hope finally came back with episodes 7 and 8, tiny hope but still...
and episode 9 and especially 10 crushed that and I'm back with hating it.

So instead of mourning my long gone favorite 90's TV show,
I chose to make fun of its pitiful doppelganger.

Spoiler:

- What do you mean my TV show sucks ? People love it !!!



- David, I'm sorry but some fans are very disappointed with Twin Peaks 2017.
Some of them even say you're totally making fun of them...

- Miguel my friend, I don't give a shit...



- It's crazy Sheriff, the whole script holds on this tiny piece of paper
- Just three lines but I understand nothing in this gibberish



- Boohoo hoo, sob... Other dimension and shit, but especially boohoo...
- What an actor... your such a natural whiner. I am amazed, really.



- Banging an old timer to move up the ladder is OK, but this, is ridiculous.
- That's the secret technique of "I Take My Time" followed by the one of "F**k you if you don't like it"
- David, can you cut the bullshit with the never-ending scenes just to show off ?



- Do you hear that, mean temptress nameless secretary ?
- Yes, that's the sound of the abysmal vacuity of this crappy tv show...



- What are you doing, Yoga ? You speak in code ? There is a message to decipher ?
- Nope, I'm having a f**king rash and it's itchy as f**k !
David found it cool to end the epiode... That people would love to see me scratching my armpit...



Sur le Retour = Back after a long time but not in a good shape, has been

THAT'S THE KIND OF MEME TO MAKE YOU WISH YOU SPOKE A LITTLE FRENCH.

[LurkerAtTheThreshold]

Ha ha I'm kind of proud. Most threads I start last about 3 posts lol.

Did you start this thread?
That's awesome. Well done.
I've really enjoyed my time here. I feel like I have come around to love and accept the series a lot more now.
I don't think I could've ever enjoyed it on any level without this opportunity to complain about faults and frustrations.

You have done a real service to the community. Thank you

I think I did...... it was so long ago I can't remember.

Thanks Lurker but yours and about fifteen others contributions have what has really made the thread.

I've enjoyed reading it. I've probably come round a little bit since the shock of the first episodes but am not there yet by a long shot. Hopefully I will be by the end. For everything that's been said I do have a lot of admiration for Lynch, Frost and even Showtime for putting something out there that pretty much goes out of its way not to pander to audiences. If this is Lynch's vision I accept it. I hate the idea, for example, of filmmakers changing the endings of their movies because they didn't screen well with test audiences. F**k that.

Yeah I get that. I still have mixed emotions

It's by no means the series I had anticipated for or hoped for but I'm enjoying the ludicrous ride.
The Dougie stuff has constantly provoked me.
It's nice to be shocked/disgusted/annoyed
tv often doesn't have that effect on me

[Venus]

Ha ha I'm kind of proud. Most threads I start last about 3 posts lol.

Did you start this thread?
That's awesome. Well done.
I've really enjoyed my time here. I feel like I have come around to love and accept the series a lot more now.
I don't think I could've ever enjoyed it on any level without this opportunity to complain about faults and frustrations.

You have done a real service to the community. Thank you

I think I did...... it was so long ago I can't remember.

Thanks Lurker but yours and about fifteen others contributions have what has really made the thread.

I've enjoyed reading it. I've probably come round a little bit since the shock of the first episodes but am not there yet by a long shot. Hopefully I will be by the end. For everything that's been said I do have a lot of admiration for Lynch, Frost and even Showtime for putting something out there that pretty much goes out of its way not to pander to audiences. If this is Lynch's vision I accept it. I hate the idea, for example, of filmmakers changing the endings of their movies because they didn't screen well with test audiences. F**k that.

I'm still hanging in there with you. I've said it before and I'll say it again - cheers for this thread!

[Bookworm]

I feel like I have come around to love and accept the series a lot more now.

First I hated it, then I watched it for what it is, so bad it's kind of funny thingy (and sad at the same time).
Then hope finally came back with episodes 7 and 8, tiny hope but still...
and episode 9 and especially 10 crushed that and I'm back with hating it.

So instead of mourning my long gone favorite 90's TV show,
I chose to make fun of its pitiful doppelganger.

Spoiler:

- What do you mean my TV show sucks ? People love it !!!



- David, I'm sorry but some fans are very disappointed with Twin Peaks 2017.
Some of them even say you're totally making fun of them...

- Miguel my friend, I don't give a shit...



- It's crazy Sheriff, the whole script holds on this tiny piece of paper
- Just three lines but I understand nothing in this gibberish



- Boohoo hoo, sob... Other dimension and shit, but especially boohoo...
- What an actor... you're such a natural whiner. I am amazed, really.



- Banging an old timer to move up the ladder is OK, but this, is ridiculous.
- That's the secret technique of "I Take My Time" followed by the one of "F**k you if you don't like it"
- David, can you cut the bullshit with the never-ending scenes just to show off ?



- Do you hear that, mean temptress nameless secretary ?
- Yes, that's the sound of the abysmal vacuity of this crappy tv show...



- What are you doing, Yoga ? You speak in code ? There is a message to decipher ?
- Nope, I'm having a f**king rash and it's itchy as f**k !
David found it cool to end the epiode... That people would love to see me scratching my armpit...



Sur le Retour = Back after a long time but not in a good shape, has been

Thanks for the laugh, it was a welcome read. I think I'm fan of your humor. Sérieux, j'étais pliée.

[mlsstwrt]

Did you start this thread?
That's awesome. Well done.
I've really enjoyed my time here. I feel like I have come around to love and accept the series a lot more now.
I don't think I could've ever enjoyed it on any level without this opportunity to complain about faults and frustrations.

You have done a real service to the community. Thank you

I think I did...... it was so long ago I can't remember.

Thanks Lurker but yours and about fifteen others contributions have what has really made the thread.

I've enjoyed reading it. I've probably come round a little bit since the shock of the first episodes but am not there yet by a long shot. Hopefully I will be by the end. For everything that's been said I do have a lot of admiration for Lynch, Frost and even Showtime for putting something out there that pretty much goes out of its way not to pander to audiences. If this is Lynch's vision I accept it. I hate the idea, for example, of filmmakers changing the endings of their movies because they didn't screen well with test audiences. F**k that.

I'm still hanging in there with you. I've said it before and I'll say it again - cheers for this thread!

Thank YOU and everyone else! There have been some really amazing posts, on both sides.

Yeah, wonder how we're going to feel after Episode 18. And how we'll feel on a rewatch (or several) and after a year or five or ten. Do you think you'll rewatch anytime soon after it finishes Venus? I love re-watching Breaking Bad, Sopranos, The Wire and of course Twin Peaks (although I stop after the episode where Leland dies). But I think I'll have to make myself re-watch The Return. And I'll probably have to fast forward through some of the Roadhouse scenes.

What do you guys think about artists and age? Generally I feel like artists do tend to make their best stuff when they're younger (maybe 30s/40s/50s). But of course there are lots of exceptions. Eyes Wide Shut is probably my favourite Kubrick film and I think he was very late sixties when he made it?

One thing that surprises me is how ugly Twin Peaks is in terms of its view on human beings. Lynch seems like a happy guy and I thought with TM he'd have a very positive view of things. It kind of surprises me how 'negative' The Return is. Maybe it's not a reasonable question but do you guys think that Lynch's view of humanity has changed for the worse since the original? I know for sure mine has!

[David Locke]

I think I did...... it was so long ago I can't remember.

Thanks Lurker but yours and about fifteen others contributions have what has really made the thread.

I've enjoyed reading it. I've probably come round a little bit since the shock of the first episodes but am not there yet by a long shot. Hopefully I will be by the end. For everything that's been said I do have a lot of admiration for Lynch, Frost and even Showtime for putting something out there that pretty much goes out of its way not to pander to audiences. If this is Lynch's vision I accept it. I hate the idea, for example, of filmmakers changing the endings of their movies because they didn't screen well with test audiences. F**k that.

I'm still hanging in there with you. I've said it before and I'll say it again - cheers for this thread!

Thank YOU and everyone else! There have been some really amazing posts, on both sides.

Yeah, wonder how we're going to feel after Episode 18. And how we'll feel on a rewatch (or several) and after a year or five or ten. Do you think you'll rewatch anytime soon after it finishes Venus? I love re-watching Breaking Bad, Sopranos, The Wire and of course Twin Peaks (although I stop after the episode where Leland dies). But I think I'll have to make myself re-watch The Return. And I'll probably have to fast forward through some of the Roadhouse scenes.

What do you guys think about artists and age? Generally I feel like artists do tend to make their best stuff when they're younger (maybe 30s/40s/50s). But of course there are lots of exceptions. Eyes Wide Shut is probably my favourite Kubrick film and I think he was very late sixties when he made it?

One thing that surprises me is how ugly Twin Peaks is in terms of its view on human beings. Lynch seems like a happy guy and I thought with TM he'd have a very positive view of things. It kind of surprises me how 'negative' The Return is. Maybe it's not a reasonable question but do you guys think that Lynch's view of humanity has changed for the worse since the original? I know for sure mine has!

I think often artists - at least filmmakers mature and improve with age, and I think most of my favorite directors made their best work in their mid-to-late career. Certainly agree about Kubrick (EWS is my favorite of his as well, and excepting Clockwork Orange I think Kubrick's post-Strangelove work is his finest).

Antonioni is another director who did his best work later in his career (technically still in the 60s and 70s, but he only made like 3 films after The Passenger, which I think is his masterpiece). Hitchcock had been directing films for decades when he made Vertigo and Psycho. Lynch's high point is more middle-career, although again the only things he's done since the end of that period have been IE and now The Return. But if you separated Lynch's career, I think you could go Early Lynch (1967-1984), Middle Lynch (1986-2001), and Late Lynch (2002- ). Sure there hasn't been much since MD but it's been a definite change in style and approach. Just how the early stuff was very Expressionist, more outwardly avant-garde, and interested in B&W, and the Middle period was marked by an experimentation with vivid, gorgeous color, more non-linear narratives and humanistic stories often from a woman's POV -- then the late period is interested in a kind of piecemeal approach to narrative (or lack thereof), in grainy (or more polished) digital textures with a certain flat look, in a less tightly-crafted form than the wonderful middle period works.

[mlsstwrt]

It's funny isn't it David? Obviously the vast majority of sportspeople peak in twenties and thirties for obvious reasons.

I would argue strongly that musicians do their best stuff when they're younger (at least in rock/pop/electro, I can't speak about classical) although I can't really prove it. I feel like to make great music fire, hunger, passion, etc are so important and often bands attain success and lose that. But I know a lot of people would disagree.

[Aqwell]

Thanks for the laugh, it was a welcome read. I think I'm fan of your humor. Sérieux, j'étais pliée.

Thanx, cela fait plaisir à lire, je m'attendais un peu à tout, mépris, insultes (internet quoi), me voilà rassuré. Before that I thought to post it on a french forum, but I changed my mind because they all love the new show there, unfortunately... Even reviewers on Youtube are enjoying it, or they pretend to, just a little bit, can't displease their audience I guess.
I'm still watching the show, I like the unexpected surrealist scenes when it's done well (the woodsman and his hypnotic litany, not so much Candie vs fly).
I really thought the woodsmen took Bob's orb/egg out of Mr C's body in episode 8 (yeah, Bob is a xenomorph now), but two episodes later there's nothing to confirm this. What would be Evil Coop without Bob's presence ? Less evil, more vulnerable ? Could have been interesting, still could be. Maybe be Coop is not aware of Bob unless watching himself in a mirror, like the scene in prison. So next time he sees his reflection he could say : "What the F... He's gone !".

[douglasb]

There was an academic study years ago - which I've never been able to re-find - that looked at the careers of authors, suggesting that indeed they do their best work earlier on.

Personally, no matter how talented are, I think most creative people only have a few genuinely great ideas. It might be a plot for a novel, hitting upon a sound in music and so on. They might refine and hone that idea early on but very rarely do they go on to recapture the magic a second time. Is Paul McCartney a genius? Absolutely - but when did he last write a song that the average person in the street would recognise?

Filmmakers, of course, are generally aided by being able to call on scripts written by other people. So it can look like they're still at the top of their game, but they're not having to do so much of the legwork.

Where Lynch fits on this continuum I'm not sure, but there will always be outliers (David Bowie for example) who keep managing to reinvent themselves and sustain a level of freshness and interest - but they're rare beasts.

[mlsstwrt]

There was an academic study years ago - which I've never been able to re-find - that looked at the careers of authors, suggesting that indeed they do their best work earlier on.

Personally, no matter how talented are, I think most creative people only have a few genuinely great ideas. It might be a plot for a novel, hitting upon a sound in music and so on. They might refine and hone that idea early on but very rarely do they go on to recapture the magic a second time. Is Paul McCartney a genius? Absolutely - but when did he last write a song that the average person in the street would recognise?

Filmmakers, of course, are generally aided by being able to call on scripts written by other people. So it can look like they're still at the top of their game, but they're not having to do so much of the legwork.

Where Lynch fits on this continuum I'm not sure, but there will always be outliers (David Bowie for example) who keep managing to reinvent themselves and sustain a level of freshness and interest - but they're rare beasts.

Maybe but even Bowie, he kept going a loooong time but not sure he had another Station to Station in him in his sixties. All subjective of course. Rolling Stones, same, they kept making music but doubt they had another Exile on Main Street in them.

Just to me, Lynch isn't what he was.

[waferwhitemilk]

do you guys think that Lynch's view of humanity has changed for the worse since the original?

I know from personal experience that in the midst of a crippling depression life can seem like a long series of ugly and pointless events randomly stitched together.

[mlsstwrt]

do you guys think that Lynch's view of humanity has changed for the worse since the original?

I know from personal experience that in the midst of a crippling depression life can seem like a long series of ugly and pointless events randomly stitched together.

I do too. But Lynch hasn't suffered depression right?

[waferwhitemilk]

[Mr. Reindeer]

There was an academic study years ago - which I've never been able to re-find - that looked at the careers of authors, suggesting that indeed they do their best work earlier on.

Personally, no matter how talented are, I think most creative people only have a few genuinely great ideas. It might be a plot for a novel, hitting upon a sound in music and so on. They might refine and hone that idea early on but very rarely do they go on to recapture the magic a second time. Is Paul McCartney a genius? Absolutely - but when did he last write a song that the average person in the street would recognise?

Filmmakers, of course, are generally aided by being able to call on scripts written by other people. So it can look like they're still at the top of their game, but they're not having to do so much of the legwork.

Where Lynch fits on this continuum I'm not sure, but there will always be outliers (David Bowie for example) who keep managing to reinvent themselves and sustain a level of freshness and interest - but they're rare beasts.

This is an interesting discussion, but I think people are over-generalizing by talking about a lot of things at once. The general conversation seems to be hovering mostly around pop artists reaching their peak young, which I would agree with as a rule. However, that's the nature of the beast: pop is focused on a certain type of youthful vitality, anger, hopefulness, rebelliousness, youthful love, sex. That's what the genre is all about. Of course Mick Jagger at 40, 50, 60, isn't in a place to make that same type of music anymore. Plus, tastes in the pop world change so quickly. While I agree that McCartney isn't writing at the level he was in the '60s, even if he were, I doubt many people would be listening outside his hardcore fan base. He certainly wouldn't be on the radio alongside Rihanna and Selena Gomez. Popularity isn't a great gauge for the quality of an artist's output.

However, pop artists can mature and even improve with age -- they're just not necessarily composing the type of pop that's going to tap that same youthful nerve and get airplay. Leonard Cohen is a great example: a guy who did some great work within the folk music genre during his early career, then reinvented himself into an absolute original around age 50 (even having a couple of modest '80s hits like "First We Take Manhattan"). Tom Waits is another example of a guy who reinvented himself and became much more innovative mid-career, although he was younger (in his mid-30s); however, some of his best, most batshit work was in his 40s-50s during the '90s and early '00s. The National have also done a great job of continuing to evolve and put out some of their best work in their 40s.

But those guys are rare exceptions. I agree with most of what's being said about pop/rock artists. However, I don't believe this phenomenon has a more general application beyond that field. I haven't seen classical composers touched upon much if at all in the conversation, but, just a few examples: Richard Strauss composed his most acclaimed composition, "Four Last Songs" (used in W@H), at 84; Beethoven completed his 9th Symphony late in his short life, debuting it at age 54, two years before he died; Wagner premiered his epic Ring Cycle when he was 65 (although he had of course been working on it for approximately 30 years on and off). Unlike pop, I think the nature of classical music lends itself to maturity, and many composers in that field get better with age (they also admittedly don't have the rigors of performing, which inevitably take their toll on pop/rock stars).

You're also seeming to draw a distinction between idea-catching (as DKL would call it) and execution, implying that film directors are sort of "conduits" for the script more than fully-fledged idea men themselves. It depends on the director, of course, but I disagree with this, with DKL as Exhibit A: imagine this season of TP as directed by anyone else off the exact same script. My guess is that it would be at least 6-7 hours shorter, and at least some people in this thread would like it more. In any event, even adopting your theory, I would actually come to the exact opposite outcome: directing is in some (but by no means all) ways a younger man's game, whereas writing (great writing -- not necessarily "box office success"-style writing) benefits from maturity. I think a lot of people fail to understand how incredible it is that anyone, let alone a 70-year-old man, carried this thing to fruition: being a director is sort of like running a mid-size business while simultaneously attempting to create brilliant art (neither an easy task on its own, let alone trying to juggle both) -- with deadlines and limitations facing you from every side.

Writing is generally a more leisurely process (in Hollywood, not always as leisurely as it should be), with the focus solely on the story itself. IMO -- others may differ -- life experience is never a detriment when creating art, and since writing isn't a physically arduous process like directing or performing concerts, I think the odds are good that many writers improve with age. Do some writers run out of ideas or begin to repeat themselves? Sure. But let's take a quick, completely biased cherry-picked look at a few examples, confining ourselves to Hollywood: Billy Wilder was 54 when he wrote & directed The Apartment and 44 when he wrote and directed Sunset Blvd.; Vince Gilligan, David Simon, Matt Weiner and Pat McGoohan were all in their 40s during the first seasons of, respectively, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men and The Prisoner, and David Chase was in his 50s when he started The Sopranos; Charlie Kaufman was in his mid-40s when he wrote Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, and IMO, his subsequent works Synecdoche NY and Anomalisa (the latter at age 58) are among the most brilliant, beautiful, human, unique films made in the past ten years. Jacques Tati (one of DKL's favorites and a pretty clear influence on DougieCoop) wrote and directed some of his most acclaimed films late in life, well into his 60s.

And we're not even going to get into dramatic actors, who IMO almost always get better with age (unless they devolve into lazy self-parody). Comedic acting is a bit more of a young man's game due to the the physicality, but hell, look at someone like Matthew Lillard -- I always hated his comedy work, but he did some shockingly good dramatic work on TP:TR, particularly in Parts 1 & 2.

All of that being said, I do think IE (which I love) and in particular TP:TR (which I'm enjoying a lot despite a few reservations about where the story may be headed) show an artist who has doubled down on his eccentricities and self-indulgences in his advanced age, and who clearly gives less of a shit than ever before about catering to any audience except himself. (I do believe he WANTS people to enjoy the work, but any thoughts about how the man on the street would perceive it were obviously pretty far from his mind.) And I guess we can speculate about what exactly DKL's mindset says in a more generalized context about artists and age...but my hunch is, not much. Love him or hate him, I think most people would agree that DKL is pretty far from the norm in almost every respect.

[Guardian]

Speaking of age and quality

I think Angelo Badalamenti made some fantastic music for the Lynch productions 1986 - 2001.
He was in his late 40s to early 60s then.
Haven't heard so much of the new Badalamenti music for this new 'Twin Peaks' though.

David Lynch, on the other hand, I feel has had ups and downs in terms of quality and style through out his career.

But I definitely agree that there's a turning point after Mulholland Drive, when he's gone digital.
I do however see several similarities in 'The Return' and his previous work.
It's like a mixed bag of Lynch, or Lynch-world as someone wrote.
But I just feel the quality and finesse isn't there anymore. And I feel like these scenes don't fit as well togheter as one piece.
Like they don't belong in the same 'world'.

Also, the digital picture and his CGI effects don't sit well with me.

I do however relly like the short "Between two worlds" segment with Sara, Leland and Laura on the Blu-ray set.
Wonder how that spontaneous scene works so well for me, but the The Return in general, not so much.