Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Phillyfoggy
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Phillyfoggy »

TR reminds me a bit of two other late career disappointments: EYES WIDE SHUT and the STAR WARS prequels. The former was sloppily edited, visually flat, uninterested in human emotion, and self consciously arty, but got a pass from some people who added some false depth to it by comparing it to Kubrick's earlier better more human works.

And the Star Wars prequels reminds me of TR because it was made by a director visiting an earlier work who forgot the joys of fun vibrant characters and exciting narrative-- and instead got hung up in the self conscious and self-serious mythology he had created that some fans and critics had latched on to.

Meaning, I don't really give a darn about the black lodge or evil Coop or doppelgangers, I liked the town of twin peaks and it's characters.

That said I didn't hate TR. whenever I was ready to give up something would grab my attention. It's just disappointing when a great artist forgets what makes him/her great.
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powerleftist
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by powerleftist »

Sometimes I think all of those disconnected ideas where early drafts for films that Lynch (or Frost... probably Lynch though) had kept in a folder during years. Woody Allen said that he writes down ideas for films on pieces of paper, and when he wants to start a new film, he goes to the drawer where he keeps them and picks one of the notes.

Perhaps Lynch had plans to make a movie about a drug dealer who is also a wizard who is dating a waitress who has a troubling daughter who is marrying a sociopath. So he adapted it a little by making Shelly the waitress and voilà, now he can film his pet project.

Perhaps Lynch wanted to make a short film about an old couple who lives in a tower with retro furnitures in space, monitoring evil on Earth, battling evil hobos and frog-insects. So he changed it to be set in the White Lodge (maybe?) and voilà, now he can film that crazy atomic bomb thing he always dreamed of.

I'm surprised no character turned into a cockroach since he wanted to film Kafka's Metamorphosis some time ago. (Wait a minute... Is Dougie a metaphore for this?)
Castledoque
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Castledoque »

Here is an interesting question:

Has a filmmaker/artist ever returned successfully to one of his works from his younger days? I am thinking here Francis Ford Copolla and Godfather 3, which in many ways reminds me of Twin Peaks S3. The talent and the style are all there and in the case of the Godfather 3 the narrative is much better constructed compared to TP3, but somehow everything is off, it no longer feels like the same universe or the same people. I don't think there were bad intentions in either of these works, but in both cases the result was simply wrong. I am sure there are more examples.
Rialto
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Rialto »

What?!!?
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powerleftist
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by powerleftist »

Castledoque wrote:Has a filmmaker/artist ever returned successfully to one of his works from his younger days?
Tolkien.
Castledoque
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Castledoque »

powerleftist wrote:
Castledoque wrote:Has a filmmaker/artist ever returned successfully to one of his works from his younger days?
Tolkien.
I don't think he counts. He never left the realm of middle earth as an artist, so he didn't have to come back. He remained there throughout his life, he was always there and it was his life work.
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powerleftist
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by powerleftist »

Castledoque wrote:
powerleftist wrote:
Castledoque wrote:Has a filmmaker/artist ever returned successfully to one of his works from his younger days?
Tolkien.
I don't think he counts. He never left the realm of middle earth as an artist, so he didn't have to come back. He remained there throughout his life, he was always there and it was his life work.
In fact, you make an excellent point. Lynch and Frost have failed (at least, to this group) to bring back Twin Peaks because they were the first ones to walk away from it a long, long time ago. In fact, they were even gone before the original series ended.

We are more interested in this world than they themselves are. They just want the money.
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referendum
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by referendum »

They just want the money.
this is a crass thing to say. If anyone seriously believes that Lynch/ Frost made this thing because they are in it for the money, then...

oh dear
''let's not overthink this opportunity''
Agent Earle
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Agent Earle »

I'd say a little bit of (more) money never hurt anyone. Make of that what you will. :wink:
Castledoque
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Castledoque »

referendum wrote:
They just want the money.
this is a crass thing to say. If anyone seriously believes that Lynch/ Frost made this thing because they are in it for the money, then...

oh dear
I don't think they were in it (only) for the money, I just think they are in a very different place now compared to 25 years ago. They simply could not find the way back, which is very much in keeping with the themes of the new show.
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powerleftist
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by powerleftist »

Lynch made his last major film 17 years ago. Frost's career is weak; his Wikipedia page is brief and depressing (he co-wrote those awful Fantastic Four films, for instance).

Of course they wanted/needed the money.
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referendum
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by referendum »

um.
If they were in it for the money, they would have made something a little more populist, don't you think?
I just think they are in a very different place now compared to 25 years ago. They simply could not find the way back, which is very much in keeping with the themes of the new show.
I agree . This is where it all gets abit meta and it becomes a show about a show, actually they did surprisingly well to avoid that trap 75% of the time. The worst bits were those where some kind of continuation was attempted. If Andy and Lucy and Nadine had been excised from the series entirely in favour of more time for Becky/ Steve / young generation storyline, it would have been better for it. Gordon Cole having 90% less screentime would already have been a massive improvement. As it is, the series suffered slightly from an excess of pensioners.
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Cipher
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Cipher »

Lynch wanted the money so badly he refused to do the project as originally offered and walked away with no guarantee of a deal.

So, so desperate for another slice of those Twin Peaks checks. What a sellout.
Phillyfoggy wrote:Meaning, I don't really give a darn about the black lodge or evil Coop or doppelgangers, I liked the town of twin peaks and it's characters.

That said I didn't hate TR. whenever I was ready to give up something would grab my attention. It's just disappointing when a great artist forgets what makes him/her great.
I don't think The Return was all that interested in evil Coop or doppelgangers either, except in terms of what they represent. It certainly played with the idea of mythology-heavy intrigue a lot though, via all the wacky exposition that kept putting me off, before showing its hand in the final ninety minutes.

That said, it's not interested heavily in the town of Twin Peaks or its characters either, except for what they offer in terms of emotional backdrops. As with Fire Walk With Me, it is only profoundly interested in the humanity of Laura and Coop.

So it wasn't ensemble, but outside of the designed-for-TV-serial, group-written first two seasons of Twin Peaks, Lynch has never been.
Agent Earle
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Agent Earle »

referendum wrote:um.
If they were in it for the money, they would have made something a little more populist, don't you think?
I just think they are in a very different place now compared to 25 years ago. They simply could not find the way back, which is very much in keeping with the themes of the new show.
I agree . This is where it all gets abit meta and it becomes a show about a show, actually they did surprisingly well to avoid that trap 75% of the time. The worst bits were those where some kind of continuation was attempted. If Andy and Lucy and Nadine had been excised from the series entirely in favour of more time for Becky/ Steve / young generation storyline, it would have been better for it. Gordon Cole having 90% less screentime would already have been a massive improvement. As it is, the series suffered slightly from an excess of pensioners.
So, basically, your idea for an improvement would be to scratch the old characters (bar Cooper and Laura, of course)? Given that you can't have them on the screen without attempting some kind of continuation in regards to their previous storylines (well, The Return for about 90 % of the time defied that - it used the old characters and ignored completely what went on before, leaving us in the dark even with such basic stuff as what happened to the Haywards, to the Hornes etc.). That's certainly a curious idea, I'll give you that.
Snailhead
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Snailhead »

Hey all,

I'm sad to say that I ultimately am falling into the profoundly disappointed camp. I was among those who was holding out for the final hours to put it all into perspective - not to wrap things up tidily, but to give more weight to what had come before it. There were a lot of great moments throughout the run and I liked part 18 a lot as its own thing but ultimately I think this new series was a big failure, and largely due to pretty bad writing and sloppy storytelling.
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