Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[douglasb]

The Otis and Buella scene really seemed like the start of something, didn't it? And it really wasn't.

[AhmedKhalifa]

About OAM/PG, yes, he does go arround like a grumpy groundskeeper, but this "do you have a seed" line almost made him a Clippy-like character "It looks like you are generating a tulpa, I need a strand of hair from the back of your head". (for those who do not know I am talking of the old MS Office Clippy helper assistant).

LOL! Perfect.

It really does make you wonder why they turned OAM into a one-dimensional helper (indentured Lodge servant?) when he used to have much more mystery to him or his motivations before. It's not even a matter of him not being able to fill LMFAP/BOB & co's shoes; they could have made his character a bit more interesting and complex than just a plot-advancing device, really.


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Remember the OAM's introduction in the international version of the pilot, with him talking to Cooper in that dark hospital room, reciting the FWWM poem for the first time? In that scene Lynch imbued him with more mystery, characterization, and menace that in the entire run of TPTR. It's these little comparisons that really make the divide between what TP was and what TR is so clear.

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[AhmedKhalifa]

To me it's basically like a bunch of old friends gathered all the ingredients to make a wonderful cherry pie together and then just when they want to start Lynch barges in with a chef hat, pushes everyone out of the kitchen and says: right i'm gonna make banana crepes with this and just improvise.

I'm (of course) a big Lynch fan and I'm usually very auteurist/director-centric when it comes to dissecting films. (And, often, assigning either praise or blame for the work as a whole). But in recent years it's really struck me that, besides the obvious Lynch-directed hours, a lot of what made the original TP so great did have to do with the collaborative nature of it, both on the writing and directing side. Naturally when there was weaker material everything kind of suffered, as in Episodes 17-22 etc, but when the writing was firing on all cylinders - like from Pilot to Episode 14 at least - I think the show worked brilliantly as a group effort with a stable of different reliable directors (Dunham, Linka Glatter, Hunter) and one-off guest directors (my favorites of these easily being James Foley and Stephen Gyllenhaal).

Certainly Lynch provided so much to the show and his episodes were the best ones. Still, the more workmanlike - but just as brilliant - tone struck by, say, Deschanel's Episode 6, or Linka Glatter's Episodes 5 & 13, or Hunter's Episode 4, et al, was special in its own way, in hewing to the house style perfectly and trying new things when appropriate, in letting the story move along in the best possible way. There's something about a multiple writer/director show like that when it's really cooking, you get more variety and more perspectives on the material.

With TR now though, with Lynch at his most unquestioningly self indulgent, we naturally get nothing less than his uncompromising, singular vision. Usually that'd be great, but needless to say it's a mixed bag and I'm starting to wonder if the flaws of TR implicitly provide a strong argument against the kind of rabid auteurism that led to this uncompromising version of a return to TP.


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Totally agree. However blasphemous that might be to some Lynchites, TP was at its best as a collaborative effort, with the in house writers/directors providing much needed breathers before and after Lynch's brilliant and kinetic episodes. Frost and co. also made it work because of how hard they tried to balance and rein in Lynch's excesses, resulting in an incomparable TV show that even Lynch can't compete with now, as evidenced by how problematic TR is.

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[boske]

The Otis and Buella scene really seemed like the start of something, didn't it? And it really wasn't.

Yes, exactly. Now that too was shot in digital, but still looked very good to me. A palette full of autumn colors and a great shading, they filmed it and made it look intriguing and palatable. It had sure kept me hooked/hoodwinked until part 6 when I started to wake up myself to it and ended up here. I do not even own a camera, and my wife takes better photos than I do (I am truly an anti-talent when it comes to filming). But that scene in the Las Vegas FBI building corridor where that agent goes to interrogate the Jones (the "children!" scene) looks so bland, cheap, empty, jarring, that it right away felt to me like something I would shoot on the first day of a filming job. It almost hurt my eyes.

[N. Needleman]

The Otis and Buella scene really seemed like the start of something, didn't it

Of what?

Remember the OAM's introduction in the international version of the pilot, with him talking to Cooper in that dark hospital room, reciting the FWWM poem for the first time? In that scene Lynch imbued him with more mystery, characterization, and menace that in the entire run of TPTR. It's these little comparisons that really make the divide between what TP was and what TR is so clear.

In fairness, he also called him on a public phone, told him dude was in the basement, then ran in and blew him away with a gun.

[boske]

1-1-9

[AhmedKhalifa]

The Otis and Buella scene really seemed like the start of something, didn't it

Of what?

Remember the OAM's introduction in the international version of the pilot, with him talking to Cooper in that dark hospital room, reciting the FWWM poem for the first time? In that scene Lynch imbued him with more mystery, characterization, and menace that in the entire run of TPTR. It's these little comparisons that really make the divide between what TP was and what TR is so clear.

In fairness, he also called him on a public phone, told him dude was in the basement, then ran in and blew him away with a gun.

Are you actually making fun of Lynch's work on the pilot to make your point??

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[N. Needleman]

Are you actually making fun of Lynch's work on the pilot to make your point??

I am saying the European pilot ending was thrown together on a whim in a lot of ways from Lynch's unfiltered consciousness, and the blatant plot mechanics of the OAM were of little concern to him. So pointing to the European pilot ending as a way of how Lynch preserved the mystery of MIKE at that time - in what was possibly his most blatantly literal and earthbound outing in the series, which is also non-canonical - is not, to me, a great example of how he used to be mysterious and is now ruined.

[David Locke]

Remember when I wrote that a lot of people who are super into TR tend to elevate it above the original and Needleman said I committed some awful crime by supposedly making a generalisation

Just sayin'


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[Gabriel]

Totally agree. However blasphemous that might be to some Lynchites, TP was at its best as a collaborative effort, with the in house writers/directors providing much needed breathers before and after Lynch's brilliant and kinetic episodes. Frost and co. also made it work because of how hard they tried to balance and rein in Lynch's excesses, resulting in an incomparable TV show that even Lynch can't compete with now, as evidenced by how problematic TR is.

Exactly. It's why I'll always like the original Star Trek the best. By the time we get to the Next Generation and beyond, things had descended into Gene Roddenberry worship and everything since has been about his 'vision.' The original show had tremendous writers and producers like Gene Coon, who reworked the show early in the first season and created the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic. Roddenberry was a part of something great, but the lesser quality of everything since the original cast version is down to him and his 'disciples.'

I'd be intrigued to see the script for TPTR. I get the feeling a lot of Lynch's penchant for ad libbing has gone into the televised version.

[N. Needleman]

Remember when I wrote that a lot of people who are super into TR tend to elevate it above the original and Needleman said I committed some awful crime by supposedly making a generalisation

That is absolutely not what I said and a massive misread of my very explicit post re: the European pilot. But whatever powers your victim complex.

[AhmedKhalifa]

Are you actually making fun of Lynch's work on the pilot to make your point??

I am saying the European pilot ending was thrown together on a whim in a lot of ways from Lynch's unfiltered consciousness, and the blatant plot mechanics of the OAM were of little concern to him. So pointing to the European pilot ending as a way of how Lynch preserved the mystery of MIKE at that time - in what was possibly his most blatantly literal and earthbound outing in the series, which is also non-canonical - is not, to me, a great example of how he used to be mysterious and is now ruined.

You're being very reactionary, I think, since I never said OAM was ruined, and isn't "the European pilot ending was thrown together on a whim in a lot of ways from Lynch's unfiltered consciousness" is one of things Lynch fans like about it, and that throwing together on a whim is what many like about much of TR? BTW, I find nothing about that ending blatant and non-canonical, since from that same scene extended the creation of LMFAP, the red room, and much of what would make TP great, as well as answers to what the letters under the fingernails meant.

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[N. Needleman]

Are you actually making fun of Lynch's work on the pilot to make your point??

I am saying the European pilot ending was thrown together on a whim in a lot of ways from Lynch's unfiltered consciousness, and the blatant plot mechanics of the OAM were of little concern to him. So pointing to the European pilot ending as a way of how Lynch preserved the mystery of MIKE at that time - in what was possibly his most blatantly literal and earthbound outing in the series, which is also non-canonical - is not, to me, a great example of how he used to be mysterious and is now ruined.

You're being very reactionary, I think, since I never said OAM was ruined, and isn't "the European pilot ending was thrown together on a whim in a lot of ways from Lynch's unfiltered consciousness" is one of things Lynch fans like about it, and that throwing together on a whim is what many like about much of TR?

I think we all can find a lot to love about the European ending as a strange dream, sure. But I don't think that version of the ending is a great example of MIKE being some supernatural being wholly rooted in the mystical. In that version of the story he is a dude who shows up at the hospital and calls Coop on a pay phone. So I don't think it makes sense to suggest MIKE is so off-brand in The Return vs. in that specific piece of material, where he was never more literal. You just like one and not the other. That's fine, but that's not the same thing.

BTW, I find nothing about that ending blatant and non-canonical

Many of the elements it created were later woven into the actual series, but every single person involved with the show from Lynch on down will tell you the Euro pilot ending is non-canonical.

[AhmedKhalifa]

I am saying the European pilot ending was thrown together on a whim in a lot of ways from Lynch's unfiltered consciousness, and the blatant plot mechanics of the OAM were of little concern to him. So pointing to the European pilot ending as a way of how Lynch preserved the mystery of MIKE at that time - in what was possibly his most blatantly literal and earthbound outing in the series, which is also non-canonical - is not, to me, a great example of how he used to be mysterious and is now ruined.

You're being very reactionary, I think, since I never said OAM was ruined, and isn't "the European pilot ending was thrown together on a whim in a lot of ways from Lynch's unfiltered consciousness" is one of things Lynch fans like about it, and that throwing together on a whim is what many like about much of TR?

I think we all can find a lot to love about the European ending as a strange dream, sure. But I don't think that version of the ending is a great example of MIKE being some supernatural being wholly rooted in the mystical. In that version of the story he is a dude who shows up at the hospital and calls Coop on a pay phone. So I don't think it makes sense to suggest MIKE is so off-brand in The Return vs. in that specific piece of material, where he was never more literal. You just like one and not the other. That's fine, but that's not the same thing.

BTW, I find nothing about that ending blatant and non-canonical

Many of the elements it created were later woven into the actual series, but every single person involved with the show from Lynch on down will tell you the Euro pilot ending is non-canonical.

"But I don't think that version of the ending is a great example of MIKE being some supernatural being wholly rooted in the mystical". I never said anything even close to that, I was talking about how mysterious OAM was in that scene, and how well Lynch handled his introduction in a very minimal, effective way, unlike the bloated, roundabout way almost everything about TR has been. Again, it's my opinion, and to each his own.

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[N. Needleman]

You're being very reactionary, I think, since I never said OAM was ruined, and isn't "the European pilot ending was thrown together on a whim in a lot of ways from Lynch's unfiltered consciousness" is one of things Lynch fans like about it, and that throwing together on a whim is what many like about much of TR?

I think we all can find a lot to love about the European ending as a strange dream, sure. But I don't think that version of the ending is a great example of MIKE being some supernatural being wholly rooted in the mystical. In that version of the story he is a dude who shows up at the hospital and calls Coop on a pay phone. So I don't think it makes sense to suggest MIKE is so off-brand in The Return vs. in that specific piece of material, where he was never more literal. You just like one and not the other. That's fine, but that's not the same thing.

BTW, I find nothing about that ending blatant and non-canonical

Many of the elements it created were later woven into the actual series, but every single person involved with the show from Lynch on down will tell you the Euro pilot ending is non-canonical.

"But I don't think that version of the ending is a great example of MIKE being some supernatural being wholly rooted in the mystical". I never said anything even close to that, I was talking about how mysterious OAM was in that scene, and how well Lynch handled his introduction in a very minimal, effective way, unlike the bloated, roundabout way almost everything about TR has been. Again, it's my opinion, and to each his own.

I just didn't find him nearly as mysterious in the Euro material as later on in the series and FWWM, or now - running around with a gun and giving the cops a long unbroken expository speech. It was a compromise between Lynch's sense of dream logic and an urgent need to wrap the plot up in 10 minutes. But you are correct, to each their own.