Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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mlsstwrt
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:14 am

mtwentz wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:
LateReg wrote:
What is detestable about it? It's just an idea about art and creation and storytelling and drives home the idea of living in a bottomless dream, which is central to most of Lynch's work. It's not an actual plot point, just another layer of many in the text. With how much Tarantino calls attention to other films in his work, I actually think he'd quite like this idea.


I guess I want Twin Peaks, not Inception. I don't know, I don't mean that I hate the idea as such, it's just not the level I want TP to work on. And in Ep14 the way it was said was like, wow this is so profound. It just reminded me of someone saying, 'What if we all live in a computer simulation?' and thinking they've said something brilliant.

I'm not going to fall out with someone who loves Spring Breakers and Enter the Void.


We are not getting Inception when we watch this new show, that is an insult to Lynch: Christopher Nolan is a wannabe surrealist (no slam on Nolan, he's a great filmmaker overall, but he doesn't do surrealism very well IMHO).

But overall, your complaint here strikes me as somewhat odd: The idea of living inside a dream came directly from Fire Walk With Me, and most of Lynch's work since FWWM are interpreted by fans as showing alternate realities, potentially dream and/or fantasy realities- Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive and (from what I understand, still have not seen it) Inland Empire. The Straight Story is the exception.

And of course, even the original Twin Peaks was built on a dream. In fact, the simplest interpretation of the European pilot when viewed in isolation is that the final 20 minutes (including the boiler room scene with Bob and the Red Room scene) constitutes Cooper's dream.

Is it future, or is it past? Is it a dream, or is it 'real'? If those questions don't titillate you, don't stir your imagination, Twin Peaks is probably not for you.


I know but here we're stepping outside of Twin Peaks and talking about LYNCH being the dreamer aren't we? That's the bit I have a particular issue with. Lynch doesn't exist within TP.

I would have agreed that comparing Lynch with Nolan was an insult to Lynch before The Return. At this point it's an insult to Nolan.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:19 am

mlsstwrt wrote:Let me ask the yay-sayers in this thread. Even to you does not calling this 'The greatest hour of television ever made' (as many in the main thread seem to be doing) seem radically over the top?

Do those of you who loved this think it ranked up there with the Pilot or Episode 14 say? I'm genuinely interested.


All I can say is, I really enjoyed the episode. Some of the ideas Lynch and Frost have come up with for the new series I've fallen in love with right away (all the Black Lodge scenes, puking cream corn scene, purple room scene), some I had an initial confused reaction to but grew to love on the second viewing (New York scenes, Marjorie Green in the hotel, etc.). Others have been a bit 'meh' (most of the scenes with Gordon, Tammy and Albert and Diane).

That green glove boy scene was ATROCIOUS. Maybe you have to be a Brit to understand how much that grated. When the guy used cockney rhyming slam (snappin' 'is Gregory (i.e. Gregory Peck, Neck) my jaw dropped. Cockney rhyming slam in Twin Peaks. I've lived in England for 40 years and never actually heard someone use cockney rhyming slang. Maybe if I go into the right East End boozer, they will, I don't know, I don't go there. But in.....frigging.... Twin Peaks.

That aside, just introducing this new character at this stage, this poverty Marvel superhero, what is the point of this. Lynch and Frost sat down and crafted the original. Here they are just putting their random ideas up on screen. Lynch's damn dream about Bellucci. How can anyone think this isn't self indulgent clap trap of the lowest order?


You're packing a lot of assumptions in there. It wasn't my favorite scene, but it wasn't a horrible scene either IMHO. Let's see how it plays out.

I'm afraid my comments are going to become more and more hostile as we go along because I'm genuinely pretty angry at this point. And I hope the smart and decent 'pro' posters will take that into account. You seem like cool, intelligent people and I'm not trying to offend but, like you, this has been a big part of my life for 25 years. And it's being ruined. And there's nothing I can do to stop it. Ok, in retrospect I should never have watched this. I wish I could go back a few months and make the decision not to. But what TP fan could have decided not to watched it because it might ruin their memory of the original. Maybe 1 in 100,000.


David Lynch has ALWAYS frustrated viewers. To be frank, I was angry about the original Twin Peaks. I tuned in to find out who killed that girl and when they did not reveal it the first episode, I was genuinely pissed. It was not until Episode 8 that I totally let go of any preconceptions of how I thought the storyline should go. And then I learned to enjoy it a lot more and it became my favorite show of all time.

So I'll watch it to the bitter end but I doubt I'll ever spend quiet afternoon daydreaming about the world of Twin Peaks again. It's a big loss and I'm actually angry at Lynch for this. So yeah, fuck you Lynch. You should have stuck to the TM, homes.
[/quote]

Lynch falls in love with ideas. Those ideas strike some as a sign of true genius and others as utterly banal and stupid. Who knows, in reality they may be a bit of both, depending on your perspective.

But I'll tell you what: to me it's always been interesting and worth the trip to see a Lynch work. His work ALWAYS throws me off balance and provokes me to think and stimulates my own creative muse. Television is now filled with literally any type of show you can imagine. But only one show has doppelgangers puking creamed corn, and entities feeding gangsters dreams of cherry pie. You may find that silly- I find it totally off the wall creative, hilarious and creepy at the same time. To each his own :-)
Last edited by mtwentz on Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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boske
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:20 am

mtwentz wrote:Is it future, or is it past? Is it a dream, or is it 'real'? If those questions don't titillate you, don't stir your imagination, Twin Peaks is probably not for you.

They will only start titillating after FWWM, those lines were nowhere to be heard in the original show. Or am I wrong? Still, I very much miss the talking Cooper: "Where am I, and why am I here?".
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby RedRum » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:23 am

mlsstwrt wrote:That green glove boy scene was ATROCIOUS. Maybe you have to be a Brit to understand how much that grated. When the guy used cockney rhyming slam (snappin' 'is Gregory (i.e. Gregory Peck, Neck) my jaw dropped. Cockney rhyming slam in Twin Peaks. I've lived in England for 40 years and never actually heard someone use cockney rhyming slang. Maybe if I go into the right East End boozer, they will, I don't know, I don't go there. But in.....frigging.... Twin Peaks.


This scene was the point I started outwardly saying, they killed Twin Peaks... Its over, finished. They ruined it completely.

Then when we saw Sarah Palmers scene I was like o.k. so now they ruined the original series too.

FUCK YOU LYNCH YOU COMPLETE AND UTTER TOSSER!
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:24 am

boske wrote:
mtwentz wrote:Is it future, or is it past? Is it a dream, or is it 'real'? If those questions don't titillate you, don't stir your imagination, Twin Peaks is probably not for you.

They will only start titillating after FWWM, those lines were nowhere to be heard in the original show. Or am I wrong? Still, I very much miss the talking Cooper: "Where am I, and why am I here?".


Not those exact lines, but they recall the One-Armed Man's poem of 'through the darkness of future's past'...
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:32 am

I know but here we're stepping outside of Twin Peaks and talking about LYNCH being the dreamer aren't we? That's the bit I have a particular issue with. Lynch doesn't exist within TP.


about this 'meta' /stepping outside of the dream/ wizard of oz / expose the mechanism malarkey:
from Reddit user charmonboz:

"Streetview for the Creperie Plougastel (where Gordan meets Monica) in google maps brings up the following
https://www.google.ie/maps/@48.842321,2 ... 312!8i6656
Monica B: "But who is the dreamer..." ... Gordon C/Lynch: "Monica looked past me and indicated to me to look back at something that was happening there..."
Gordon C/Lynch turns around and looks .... directly at the exhibition space where Lynch has a show IRL - David Lynch "Plume of Desire"
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boske
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:33 am

mtwentz wrote:
boske wrote:
mtwentz wrote:Is it future, or is it past? Is it a dream, or is it 'real'? If those questions don't titillate you, don't stir your imagination, Twin Peaks is probably not for you.

They will only start titillating after FWWM, those lines were nowhere to be heard in the original show. Or am I wrong? Still, I very much miss the talking Cooper: "Where am I, and why am I here?".


Not those exact lines, but they recall the One-Armed Man's poem of 'through the darkness of future's past'...


Yeah, I can see that too.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby RedRum » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:35 am

boske wrote:
mtwentz wrote:
boske wrote:They will only start titillating after FWWM, those lines were nowhere to be heard in the original show. Or am I wrong? Still, I very much miss the talking Cooper: "Where am I, and why am I here?".


Not those exact lines, but they recall the One-Armed Man's poem of 'through the darkness of future's past'...


Yeah, I can see that too.



I wonder how many of those that like season three are new to the series or only recently got into twin peaks?

And how many of those that hate the season are long standing original watchers of the series?

I have a feeling that those that love it are mostly from the Millennial generation and therefore not watched the original because they were yet to be born.

Perhaps we could have a poll?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Hockey Mask » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:13 am

RedRum wrote:FUCK YOU LYNCH YOU COMPLETE AND UTTER TOSSER!

Yet you continue to watch.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Aqwell » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:17 am

mtwentz wrote:So making jokes about coffee in the Black Lodge, and having Jimmy Scott sing Under the Sycamores is not goofy humor? My mom and I laughed about these scenes for years :-).
The coffee scene is meant to be bizarre, showing the effects of the lodge on a simple thing like coffee, but not funny like a comedic scene. I don't know Jimmy Scott elsewhere than TP and english is not my native language, so maybe I don't get the funny quality of his song (other than the connection to the sycamore trees/forest/entrance of the Blaclodge). I honestly never saw these scenes as jokes. Even the James song, it's a little bit mushy all right but I always thought it was meant to, not like a joke per se.
Although...

Spoiler:
There' something really wrong there... too much false eyelashes?
Looks like a scary parody. The girl on the right gives me the willies... :shock:

Image
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby RedRum » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:18 am

Hockey Mask wrote:
RedRum wrote:FUCK YOU LYNCH YOU COMPLETE AND UTTER TOSSER!

Yet you continue to watch.


Not anymore...

After episode 14 I would have to be some kind of masochist.

Why would I continue to watch someone take a wet sticky dump all over something I love so much?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Hockey Mask » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:20 am

RedRum wrote:
Hockey Mask wrote:
RedRum wrote:FUCK YOU LYNCH YOU COMPLETE AND UTTER TOSSER!

Yet you continue to watch.


Not anymore...

After episode 14 I would have to be some kind of masochist.

Why would I continue to watch someone take a wet sticky dump all over something I love so much?

Yet you continue to post.
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boske
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:27 am

Hey look, Chad is here again, let's ignore him.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby RedRum » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:36 am

Hockey Mask wrote:
RedRum wrote:
Hockey Mask wrote:Yet you continue to watch.


Not anymore...

After episode 14 I would have to be some kind of masochist.

Why would I continue to watch someone take a wet sticky dump all over something I love so much?

Yet you continue to post.


As an original fan from 26 years ago, I think I have more than most to add here.

Sorry if that offends you...

The issue is that the destruction of Twin Peaks isn't an opinion... its a simple fact that there is a serious and complete disconnect between the original and season 3.

It is actually worse than that because if Season three was self contained it wouldn't be as bad, but because it calls on aspects of the original it corrupts it too.

I think that those that like season three may do so because they like the season itself, but they either didn't connect correctly with the original either because they did not watch it when it first aired, or they just are superficial liking the aesthetics.

Twin peaks was like a fine wine... there were many aspects to it all culminating in the sublime experience. Sure there maybe one aspect of it you like more than the other, but if you can't appreciate all the aspects and how they all worked together, then you are missing the point.

I might also add I am willing to bet that most that like it are Liberal Voters :)
Last edited by RedRum on Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
mlsstwrt
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:38 am

RedRum wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:That green glove boy scene was ATROCIOUS. Maybe you have to be a Brit to understand how much that grated. When the guy used cockney rhyming slam (snappin' 'is Gregory (i.e. Gregory Peck, Neck) my jaw dropped. Cockney rhyming slam in Twin Peaks. I've lived in England for 40 years and never actually heard someone use cockney rhyming slang. Maybe if I go into the right East End boozer, they will, I don't know, I don't go there. But in.....frigging.... Twin Peaks.


This scene was the point I started outwardly saying, they killed Twin Peaks... Its over, finished. They ruined it completely.

Then when we saw Sarah Palmers scene I was like o.k. so now they ruined the original series too.

FUCK YOU LYNCH YOU COMPLETE AND UTTER TOSSER!


Such a cringeworthy scene. Americans, genuine question - do you get why that scene would be so cringeworthy to a Brit? Cor blimey guvnor.

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