Theory: Lucy is not a blithering idiot. ...She's giving us clues about the duality that permeates the show. (SPOILERS)

[Jerry Horne]

I think this quote is great way to describe what Lynch is doing with S3 as a whole, not just Andy and Lucy. So much revered art has been about taking something familiar and warping/subverting it...Dali, Picasso, etc.

The scene with Bobby crying was when I really started to suspect this.


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What do you mean about the scene with Bobby?

In my eyes (and my wife's as well as some other fans I've seen post about it online), the scene with Bobby comes across as disingenuous. It's subtle no doubt, but all of the elements of the scene add up to us as subverting scenes of that kinds from the original series. I don't think it's satire where we're expected to laugh at Bobby the way that Laura did when he cried in front of her, but I think it's not the same as the scenes with Sara crying in S1 for instance, which seemed genuine.



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I agree and have thought so since first seeing this scene. I know this is far out, but the first thing that came into my mind was Bobby needing to do some coke in the bathroom. Maybe it's just the editing but why does he cry so quickly? Doesn't feel right to me. YMMV.

[N. Needleman]

I think he cries so quickly because he hasn't seen Laura's face (or perhaps even thought of her) in many years. It hits him like a ton of bricks, especially since he's clearly turned a couple pages in his life since those days.

[LateReg]

I think he cries so quickly because he hasn't seen Laura's face (or perhaps even thought of her) in many years. It hits him like a ton of bricks, especially since he's clearly turned a couple pages in his life since those days.

Right. I really don't get the impetus behind questioning the scene, or why he's so quick to cry. I know people are just reacting to a feeling of their own while watching the scene...but logically it makes sense that Bobby would cry so quickly for the reasons you stated and the fact that it's Twin Peaks. I admit that it's jarring amidst the rest of the colder atmosphere, but I think it's supposed to be as it's one of the first re-awakenings of the town, the return of the repressed hitting like a ton of bricks.

[Putontheglasses]

What do you mean about the scene with Bobby?

In my eyes (and my wife's as well as some other fans I've seen post about it online), the scene with Bobby comes across as disingenuous. It's subtle no doubt, but all of the elements of the scene add up to us as subverting scenes of that kinds from the original series. I don't think it's satire where we're expected to laugh at Bobby the way that Laura did when he cried in front of her, but I think it's not the same as the scenes with Sara crying in S1 for instance, which seemed genuine.



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Thanks for explaining. I've heard others say the same thing, but I don't see it that way at all. It felt sincere to me, and no different than the original show. I teared up. It perfectly fit my understanding of Bobby (who I always envisioned becoming a cop, btw), as well, and I think his character was exactly the right one to call upon to give us the first outpouring of raw, uncomfortable emotion, especially as it pertained to Laura. Coupled with the music, it was a wonderful sudden jolt of pure Peaks to me.

I wonder how one's perception of the series up to the point would affect how they saw that scene. If they already thought Lynch was being disdainful towards Twin Peaks, would those viewers finally find something to love about Bobby's scene, or would they be more prone to dismiss it as disingenuous? Just thinking out loud.

I'll explain a bit more about why we thought it was disingenuous. First, is actually Laura's theme, which was mentioned by Needleman as lending legitimacy. The lack of similar emotionally queued scene music in the rest of the series made it stand out like a sore thumb and seem over the top and melodramatic. Plus it seemed to be at full volume as well. It reminded me of the scene in The Truman Show where Truman meets his long lost father and Ed Harris says "cue the music!".

Second is the length of time Bobby stands there and the cuts to him, back to the picture, to the other's in the room not asking him what's wrong, and the length of the entire scene. Third is the fact that Bobby just stands there and cries while nobody reacts. It not only doesn't seem realistic for Bobby's character, but it's also not realistic for most people. Bobby and most people would tear up, maybe pause a second, and then leave the room, rather than just stand there and bawl in front of everyone. Plus, you would think someone would say "Hey, what's wrong Bobby?" or something. But then again, this is the TP where Dougie's wife and an entire office full of people just ignore the fact that Dougie (Cooper) is acting like he's had a stroke.

To us it was almost like a scene out of parody movies like Airplane, and nothing like the scene of Bobby getting emotional at Laura's funeral or anything like that. We didn't think that Lynch was being disdainful at this point, but we started to suspect something fishy was up with this scene, the treatment of Lucy and Andy, as well as the Wally Brando scene.

It wasn't until a subsequent viewing that we both felt pretty certain that Lynch was doing a lot of this uncomfortable stuff on purpose, and that it was just too extreme to be on accident. This is why we won't be surprised if Cooper is still not recovered for several more episodes. We think that Lynch is looking off the board, at a bigger game so to speak.

[N. Needleman]

I can't remember an instance in the old show where Bobby did not make his emotional displays as intense and public as possible. It was typical Bobby IMO.

I also think the music was deliberately withheld in order to accentuate moments like that one.

That being said, yes: Lynch always works those moments for discomfort and confusion. He always has. But just as he approached Sarah's grief with both earnest care and a consciousness of audience reaction I feel confident he did the same here.

[Putontheglasses]

I can't remember an instance in the old show where Bobby did not make his emotional displays as intense and public as possible. It was typical Bobby IMO.

I also think the music was deliberately withheld in order to accentuate moments like that one.

Well, if this scene was the only thing in S3 that pointed in this direction (like Andy and Lucy for instance), we would likely conclude we might be misinterpreting, but there have been SO MANY things like this pointing in the same direction, that it makes more sense to us. It isn't black and white though and is subtle in this scene from our perspective.

[N. Needleman]

Again, I simply don't see any of that simultaneous emotionalism or detachment as being in any way inconsistent with how Lynch often chooses to approach those things. Same with his very broad goofy humor which speaks more to his comic sensibility (which is not for everyone, or me at times) versus any alleged contempt for Andy and Lucy. He was writing them having ludicrous slapstick as early as the Season 2 premiere. But YMMV.

[Putontheglasses]

I can't remember an instance in the old show where Bobby did not make his emotional displays as intense and public as possible. It was typical Bobby IMO.

I also think the music was deliberately withheld in order to accentuate moments like that one.

Well, if this scene was the only thing in S3 that pointed in this direction (like Andy and Lucy for instance), we would likely conclude we might be misinterpreting, but there have been SO MANY things like this pointing in the same direction, that it makes more sense to us. It isn't black and white though and is subtle in this scene from our perspective.

I want to be clear too that unlike some, I don't think Lynch is being disdainful, dissing his fans, or anything of the sort, any more than Dali or Picasso were dissing realism in their art. I think that as Lynch said, he never had any intention to return to Twin Peaks, then he got this opportunity with full creative control, and came up with a big idea of how he could take the Twin Peaks material, something loved and obsessed over by fans for 25 years, and do something unprecedented with it. Just like cubism and similar art styles could be said to be "grotesque", it's also beautiful, novel, and game changing.

[Putontheglasses]

Again, I simply don't see any of that simultaneous emotionalism or detachment as being in any way inconsistent with how Lynch often chooses to approach those things. Same with his very broad goofy humor which speaks more to his comic sensibility (which is not for everyone, or me at times) versus any alleged contempt for Andy and Lucy. He was writing them having ludicrous slapstick as early as the Season 2 premiere. But YMMV.

I for one don't think that Lynch has any contempt for Lucy and Andy. I just think that he is taking them to a ridiculous extreme, but not for comic purposes. I don't think there's anything funny about Lucy falling out of her chair. I might have thought that was funny when I was 10 years old. Not meaning offense here, but I think most adults wouldn't find that funny, and I don't think Lynch is unsophisticated enough in his humor to think they would.

[Ragnell]

First, Leebob -- Whoa. Missed that.

I can't remember an instance in the old show where Bobby did not make his emotional displays as intense and public as possible. It was typical Bobby IMO.

I also think the music was deliberately withheld in order to accentuate moments like that one.

That being said, yes: Lynch always works those moments for discomfort and confusion. He always has. But just as he approached Sarah's grief with both earnest care and a consciousness of audience reaction I feel confident he did the same here.

With Bobby we have seen uncontrollable public crying like this in the original. In the Roadhouse when Maddy died. Everyone was effected, but Bobby was in tears. He's either more psychically sensitive, more prone to losing control of emotions, or both. (Maybe the nusic indicated a supernatural element at play?)

[N. Needleman]

Not meaning offense here, but I think most adults wouldn't find that funny, and I don't think Lynch is unsophisticated enough in his humor to think they would.

The thing is that Lynch simply loves wacky slapstick and always has. He concocted the long Andy floorboard gag in Season 2, among others. That's how he's always been. Even then people didn't dig it.

[LateReg]

In my eyes (and my wife's as well as some other fans I've seen post about it online), the scene with Bobby comes across as disingenuous. It's subtle no doubt, but all of the elements of the scene add up to us as subverting scenes of that kinds from the original series. I don't think it's satire where we're expected to laugh at Bobby the way that Laura did when he cried in front of her, but I think it's not the same as the scenes with Sara crying in S1 for instance, which seemed genuine.



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Thanks for explaining. I've heard others say the same thing, but I don't see it that way at all. It felt sincere to me, and no different than the original show. I teared up. It perfectly fit my understanding of Bobby (who I always envisioned becoming a cop, btw), as well, and I think his character was exactly the right one to call upon to give us the first outpouring of raw, uncomfortable emotion, especially as it pertained to Laura. Coupled with the music, it was a wonderful sudden jolt of pure Peaks to me.

I wonder how one's perception of the series up to the point would affect how they saw that scene. If they already thought Lynch was being disdainful towards Twin Peaks, would those viewers finally find something to love about Bobby's scene, or would they be more prone to dismiss it as disingenuous? Just thinking out loud.

I'll explain a bit more about why we thought it was disingenuous. First, is actually Laura's theme, which was mentioned by Needleman as lending legitimacy. The lack of similar emotionally queued scene music in the rest of the series made it stand out like a sore thumb and seem over the top and melodramatic. Plus it seemed to be at full volume as well. It reminded me of the scene in The Truman Show where Truman meets his long lost father and Ed Harris says "cue the music!".

Second is the length of time Bobby stands there and the cuts to him, back to the picture, to the other's in the room not asking him what's wrong, and the length of the entire scene. Third is the fact that Bobby just stands there and cries while nobody reacts. It not only doesn't seem realistic for Bobby's character, but it's also not realistic for most people. Bobby and most people would tear up, maybe pause a second, and then leave the room, rather than just stand there and bawl in front of everyone. Plus, you would think someone would say "Hey, what's wrong Bobby?" or something. But then again, this is the TP where Dougie's wife and an entire office full of people just ignore the fact that Dougie (Cooper) is acting like he's had a stroke.

To us it was almost like a scene out of parody movies like Airplane, and nothing like the scene of Bobby getting emotional at Laura's funeral or anything like that. We didn't think that Lynch was being disdainful at this point, but we started to suspect something fishy was up with this scene, the treatment of Lucy and Andy, as well as the Wally Brando scene.

It wasn't until a subsequent viewing that we both felt pretty certain that Lynch was doing a lot of this uncomfortable stuff on purpose, and that it was just too extreme to be on accident. This is why we won't be surprised if Cooper is still not recovered for several more episodes. We think that Lynch is looking off the board, at a bigger game so to speak.

Thanks for fleshing that out again.

But again, I think we have a fundamentally different way of seeing this scene. The music seemed purposefully jolting, as if to awaken the town and the viewer, or as I said in an above post, a forceful demonstration of the sudden return of the repressed; the people around Bobby not reacting seems perfectly natural to me, as they would probably not quite know what to do when Bobby Briggs suddenly comes in and starts crying uncontrollably over a picture of a person nobody has thought of in many years. Hawk probably understands why but reacts stoically since the high school Bobby who knew Laura was a badboy playboy; the Truman present isn't Harry; Lucy and Andy acknowledge his pain - as well as the town's buried traumas - by holding hands. But it's been so long that nobody quite knows what to do in an awkward situation like that. And as I also said in an above post, in my understanding of Bobby Briggs, I think the crying fit perfectly suits his character, who spent his youth loving Laura without reciprocation, and who seemed to truly know she was in trouble way back when, and who himself has matured in the past 25 years. The photo awakens something in him.

All that said, I'm very curious. Having read your other posts in this thread, what exactly do you think Lynch is playing at as he is looking at a bigger game? What do you believe his goal is if this scene isn't genuine?

[Putontheglasses]

Not meaning offense here, but I think most adults wouldn't find that funny, and I don't think Lynch is unsophisticated enough in his humor to think they would.

The thing is that Lynch simply loves wacky slapstick and always has. He concocted the long Andy floorboard gag in Season 2, among others. That's how he's always been. Even then people didn't dig it.

Well I for one thought the Andy floor board scene was incredibly funny especially because it set Albert up for an amazing entrance and punch line. Comedy is a subtle beast but I see the Lucy chair gag as completely juvenile compared to the Andy scene. Plus Andy was an accident which is a big difference, and it moved the plot forward. It didn't feel like a pointless scene out of a Warner Brothers cartoon to me at all.


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[N. Needleman]

Not meaning offense here, but I think most adults wouldn't find that funny, and I don't think Lynch is unsophisticated enough in his humor to think they would.

The thing is that Lynch simply loves wacky slapstick and always has. He concocted the long Andy floorboard gag in Season 2, among others. That's how he's always been. Even then people didn't dig it.

Well I for one thought the Andy floor board scene was incredibly funny especially because it set Albert up for an amazing entrance and punch line. Comedy is a subtle beast but I see the Lucy chair gag as completely juvenile compared to the Andy scene. Plus Andy was an accident which is a big difference, and it moved the plot forward. It didn't feel like a pointless scene out of a Warner Brothers cartoon to me at all.

I didn't mind either scene. My point is they're all of a piece with the kind of wacky slapstick and very broad humor Lynch sometimes goes for, without much irony.

[Putontheglasses]

Thanks for explaining. I've heard others say the same thing, but I don't see it that way at all. It felt sincere to me, and no different than the original show. I teared up. It perfectly fit my understanding of Bobby (who I always envisioned becoming a cop, btw), as well, and I think his character was exactly the right one to call upon to give us the first outpouring of raw, uncomfortable emotion, especially as it pertained to Laura. Coupled with the music, it was a wonderful sudden jolt of pure Peaks to me.

I wonder how one's perception of the series up to the point would affect how they saw that scene. If they already thought Lynch was being disdainful towards Twin Peaks, would those viewers finally find something to love about Bobby's scene, or would they be more prone to dismiss it as disingenuous? Just thinking out loud.

I'll explain a bit more about why we thought it was disingenuous. First, is actually Laura's theme, which was mentioned by Needleman as lending legitimacy. The lack of similar emotionally queued scene music in the rest of the series made it stand out like a sore thumb and seem over the top and melodramatic. Plus it seemed to be at full volume as well. It reminded me of the scene in The Truman Show where Truman meets his long lost father and Ed Harris says "cue the music!".

Second is the length of time Bobby stands there and the cuts to him, back to the picture, to the other's in the room not asking him what's wrong, and the length of the entire scene. Third is the fact that Bobby just stands there and cries while nobody reacts. It not only doesn't seem realistic for Bobby's character, but it's also not realistic for most people. Bobby and most people would tear up, maybe pause a second, and then leave the room, rather than just stand there and bawl in front of everyone. Plus, you would think someone would say "Hey, what's wrong Bobby?" or something. But then again, this is the TP where Dougie's wife and an entire office full of people just ignore the fact that Dougie (Cooper) is acting like he's had a stroke.

To us it was almost like a scene out of parody movies like Airplane, and nothing like the scene of Bobby getting emotional at Laura's funeral or anything like that. We didn't think that Lynch was being disdainful at this point, but we started to suspect something fishy was up with this scene, the treatment of Lucy and Andy, as well as the Wally Brando scene.

It wasn't until a subsequent viewing that we both felt pretty certain that Lynch was doing a lot of this uncomfortable stuff on purpose, and that it was just too extreme to be on accident. This is why we won't be surprised if Cooper is still not recovered for several more episodes. We think that Lynch is looking off the board, at a bigger game so to speak.

Thanks for fleshing that out again.

But again, I think we have a fundamentally different way of seeing this scene. The music seemed purposefully jolting, as if to awaken the town and the viewer, or as I said in an above post, a forceful demonstration of the sudden return of the repressed; the people around Bobby not reacting seems perfectly natural to me, as they would probably not quite know what to do when Bobby Briggs suddenly comes in and starts crying uncontrollably over a picture of a person nobody has thought of in many years. Hawk probably understands why but reacts stoically since the high school Bobby who knew Laura was a badboy playboy; the Truman present isn't Harry; Lucy and Andy acknowledge his pain - as well as the town's buried traumas - by holding hands. But it's been so long that nobody quite knows what to do in an awkward situation like that. And as I also said in an above post, in my understanding of Bobby Briggs, I think the crying fit perfectly suits his character, who spent his youth loving Laura without reciprocation, and who seemed to truly know she was in trouble way back when, and who himself has matured in the past 25 years. The photo awakens something in him.

All that said, I'm very curious. Having read your other posts in this thread, what exactly do you think Lynch is playing at as he is looking at a bigger game? What do you believe his goal is if this scene isn't genuine?

Well I was planning on writing up a full analysis at some point if the episodes continue to support my theory, but in a nuthshell I think he is using the viewer's familiarity and love for the characters and story, as well as the expectation that he will create something surreal but profound, as a means to create something that is effectively the doppelgänger of the original show.

I honestly think that if anyone else besides David Lynch made the equivalent tv show, and especially if it didn't have the Twin Peaks basis, people largely would not be so willing to have faith and receive it so warmly.

A lot of the professional critic reviews that are marked as positive on metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes, basically boil down to "I have no idea what's going on and it's not easy to watch, but it's David Lynch so I'm assuming it's deep, art, and will make sense in the end."

I think he's using his reputation and the fans' eagerness and love for the show as a base to create something deeply subversive.

Fans think they generally know what to expect from him based on previous work, and if I was him and this was my last hurrah, I would want to do something totally innovative. I think that the audience is ending up being part of the art.


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