Episode 17

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David Locke
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Re: Episode 17

Postby David Locke » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:53 pm

Cipher wrote:Flaming hot take: As I've arrived on what would commonly be referred to as the "season 2 slump" on my current rewatch, this episode felt like a breath of fresh air after the missteps of 16, my least favorite on this revisit so far.

The issues with the avoidance during the wake scene have been well-documented, and I certainly can't excuse them. Cooper's speech to Sarah Palmer, and in general the way the Leland storyline is wrapped up, echo the problems present in episode 16, especially with the shadow of Fire Walk With Me's unapologetic abuse narrative over them. Still, nothing episode 17 does is more off-putting than 16 to me in that regard, and once the off-kilter wake is over, a number of fun, if soap-ish, story lines are introduced.

The ramping up of the Lucy-Dick-Andy plot? Meaningless, but enjoyable.

Bobby's attempts to get in with a newly disheveled and disgraced Ben Horne? Promises growth, and intriguing in the moment. Leo's small movement in this episode promises terror to come.

Coop's suspension? Soapishly handled, especially with the melodramatic notice delivered by Roger just before the commercial break. But things are happening again.

Josie returning? Intriguing enough to propel the viewer into the next episode.

But perhaps most importantly, this is the episode that introduces the White Lodge mythology, and Briggs sells it with all the weight in the world, just before his disappearance. That disappearance, by the way, promises the return of the strange and uncanny in a major way. Even Catherine's "guardian angel" story promises more odd supernatural/spiritual presences emerging from the woods. That's a lovely scene I'd forgotten about, and I absolutely take it to be intended to dovetail with the emerging mythology of the White Lodge.

While the series' B-plots have certainly grown more whimsical (and it's a change from season one's tightly interwoven narratives that we even have identifiable B-plots now), a sense of genuine mystery has crept back into the series after the driving one flickered out so limply over episodes 15 and 16. And with the heightened humor, the promise of more uncanny elements and character-based terror to come signals the return of the tonal whiplash that's part of the series' identity since episode 1 (and which I believe the campy handling of 15 and 16 had somewhat diminished; jumping between humor and horror is one thing, but integrating camp into the resolution of a horrific story is another). I know which plotlines do and do not pay off at this point, but I remember being completely intrigued on first viewing, and am feeling that pull again now.

This may not be peak Peaks, but it's solidly entertaining and more in the mode of the series than I'd remembered. Next episode: Denise.

I see what you mean. The wake scene tends to overwhelm the rest of the episode for me, but there are a lot of things to like (if not love) here - the ending with Briggs's abduction is a high point for sure. I guess you could say that 17-20 form a relatively solid unit, focusing on the Briggs stuff and Renault/Dead Dog Farm. I'm especially fond of 18, which I think is easily the best of that 17-22 slump, with some real classy and understated direction from Dunham. 19 is silly, but interesting kind of because of that, and 20 is another solid more mythology-driven hour. All in all, for me it's not really until 21-22 that we get two genuinely very boring/weak episodes of Peaks. And then 23 turns things around beautifully - underrated, that one. There is a kind of low-key charm to this 17-20 stretch IMO, despite all the flaws; it's easier to put on randomly than the best episodes, which tend to be the heaviest, emotionally. So I don't mind them too much.
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Jonah
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Re: Episode 17

Postby Jonah » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:35 am

I enjoyed this episode more on this latest rewatch.

The opening shot of the woods is beautiful and I think the scene with Sarah, Doc Hawyard, and Cooper is pretty strong.

I think it would have been better had they not used the "3 Days Later" title. In fact, I think the focus on time throughout the series - one episode a day - was always a mistake. I think it would have been better to make no references whatsoever to time throughout the series, or only cursory references, as it would have furthered the impression of Twin Peaks being a place perhaps outside of linear time. Also, the focus on time just never worked in my opinion, even down to the length of characters' hair, etc.

Anyway, yeah, this is the weakest episode yet - but I enjoyed a lot of it.

The wake scene is awful of course. On this rewatch, I got the idea that perhaps the characters think they're at Maddy's wake. Either that or Leland's natural death. They definitely don't act like they're at Leland's wake, though.

I enjoyed the scene with Cooper and Audrey in Room 315.

And I absolutely loved the scene between Catherine and Harry - what a great scene! Piper Laurie delivers here little monologue with great style and it was cool to get a callback to Pearl Lakes since Leland mentioned it a few episodes back - I wonder if this was a location that would have eventually shown up and been utilised had the series continued.

As for the rest....

Well, the whole Lucy/Andy/Dick stuff is the same as it's been for a few episodes now.

Hawk seems a little more over the top here - and will in subsequent episodes with Lana.

I really enjoyed all the stuff with Coop and the others in the Sheriff's Station and the investigation into Coop. Sure, this is Twin Peaks Lite and feels a bit like Northern Exposure or Due South, but I can roll with this. I wouldn't have minded a few episodes like this had the series gone on and not been cancelled.

Of this stuff, the best bits are Harry giving Coop the Bookhouse Boy patch and the scene where Cooper is saying goodbye to everyone. The bit where Coop says to Hawk "If I'm ever lost I hope you're the one to find me" may prove to be prescient in the new series.

The Shelly/Bobby/Leo stuff is okay. The Audrey/Leo stuff is a bit meh, but I can live with it.

The Nadine bit is awful of course.

The MT Wentz reveal is probably the best bit of the Norma and her mother storyline, though it could have been stronger - and I haven't really enjoyed this side plot, and find it very distracting in previous episodes, such as 15.

As for Hank and Ernie - ugh. I wish this wouldn't go on.

When Josie falls into Harry's arms, does she say "Cooper"? I thought it sounded like she did.

I like the final scene with Cooper and Major Briggs in the woods, even if it's a bit hokey.

And we get our first reference to the White Lodge here.

All in all, on this rewatch, I found a few scenes I enjoyed here - mainly the stuff into Cooper's investigation, the opening scene with Sarah, and much of the stuff in the Sheriff's Station. It's definitely a weak episode and the wake scene and the stuff with the mayor and his brother are pretty bad, but it's not as bad as I'd remembered. It's almost enjoyable. Of course, this is watching it now after several rewatches and at a point when we've all accepted this was the direction the show went in. I'm sure the first time it aired - and other times I've rewatched it - it was much more awful. This time around, I tried to enjoy the bits that I could.
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bowisneski
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Re: Episode 17

Postby bowisneski » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:06 pm

The opening Sarah scene of this episode feels very different to watch in light of Season 3. There’s now this feeling, to me, of an underlying menace in the way she says some things.
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Re: Episode 17

Postby marchug » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:56 pm

I agree with all the previous posts. I've noticed that no one has mentioned the whole Mountie bit. This part was always such a low point for me! Come on now - if the writers had done the tiniest bit of research they would have learned that the RCMP only dress like that during ceremonies and parades. They look more like regular police officers while working. Like this:
RCMP.jpg
RCMP.jpg (170.35 KiB) Viewed 7487 times

BTW - I'm loving following along with these episode posts while rewatching Twin Peaks. Thanks all!
-23-
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AXX°N N.
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Re: Episode 17

Postby AXX°N N. » Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:00 pm

There is a consistent vein in old Peaks of absurd stereotyping. For instance I recall some scandanavian viewers remarking that some of the Norwegian spoken aloud was actually gibberish. I watched Peaks with a Canadian friend once and he remarked that everything about Canada, including in FWWM, seemed utterly surreal and bizarre to him and just added to the general weirdness of the show, like the whole country just exists in extremely limited capacity as some kind of weird seedy backdrop merely for the drug shenanigans. I mean, our only glimpse (iirc) is the Pink Room scene, which is one of the weirdest scenes in the whole shebang.
Recipe not my own. In a coffee cup. 3 TBS flour, 2 TBS sugar, 1.5 TBS cocoa powder, .25 TSP baking powder, pinch of salt. 3 TBS milk, 1.5 TBS vegetable oil, 1 TBS peanut butter. Add and mix each set. Microwave 1 minute 10 seconds. The cup will be hot.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Episode 17

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:19 pm

I mostly enjoyed this one this time around. The IAB stuff adds a layer of realism that is often lacking (even if it quickly dissipates into soapy nonsense even before the episode ends). Cooper’s goodbyes to everyone are heartfelt and sweet, even though we know he’s not actually going anywhere.

I believe this is the first and only time Cooper and Sarah ever meet onscreen. (They were previously both present for Laura’s funeral and Leland’s bail hearing, but did not interact.)

Grace and Kyle are both really good in the opening scene, even though I dislike much of the content. What a contrast that scene is with the Sarah scenes in TR: hopefulness, sun-drenched Palmer living room. Thank God this isn’t where we left the character; it would have been such a disservice to her. It’s interesting how Cooper sort of ping-pongs between Leland being responsible for his actions and not being responsible. The writers really don’t seem to have a clue what they’re getting at with Leland at this point.

Rathborne got possibly the two sequences in the show’s history with the most cast members in one location: the funeral in E3 and the wake sequence here. It’s a weird little group at that wake. I guess Ben skipped because he’s doing whatever he’s doing in his office with bugspray, sunglasses and a milkshake machine.....but why are Norma and Hank and Ed and Nadine there? Does Donna think it’s a little weird that her family is hosting a funeral for the guy who murdered her best friend? Also note that Donna smokes in her parents’ house, despite Will making a big deal in TMP that he doesn’t allow smoking in the house.

For the record, earlier posters in this thread are correct that Leland is never mentioned at the wake, and the actors very likely had no idea whose wake they were supposed to be attending, given the secrecy about the killer. Donna does mention Maddy’s death when talking to Ed, the only time she is mentioned in the episode.

Hot take: As someone who routinely badmouths a lot of the goofy S2 subplots and characters (Nadine, Dick, Pinkle), I actually enjoy the Milford feud in this episode. I don’t love a lot of the Lana crap that follows it in subsequent episodes, but I like both the Milford actors and enjoy their dynamic, and I enjoy Will and Pete and Harry recounting the backstory. It’s a nice little moment of the townsfolk reveling in recounting shared history / gossip, and it feels oddly authentic in a way that a lot of the sillier material in S2 doesn’t. That being said, the show’s entire approach to following up on E16 and actively refusing to engage with the “Leland of it all” is cowardly and lame. But after having made peace with that being the show’s legacy, I find the Milford stuff on its own merits genuinely enjoyable.

Man, that scene in the vice principal’s office with Jacoby is a far cry from the Jacoby/Nadine scene in Part 13. What a weird journey those two had.

Audrey: “Let me tell you something, Agent Cooper. One of these days, before you know it, I’m gonna be grown up and on my own. You better watch out.” This is pretty poignant now that it seems Audrey never really got to have an adult life thanks to Mr. C.

I love the little detail of Coop clipping the green butt skunk to his lapel, in a place of honor alongside his FBI pin! A dissertation should be written on the significance of Coop’s lapel adornments.

It’s cool to get a glimpse of Harry’s house! I was just trying to remember earlier in the episode if we ever see Harry out of his sheriff’s station duds (it struck me as odd that he’s in uniform at the wake), and there he is in longjohns! Also a mention of Harry (and Frank’s) dad.

And so it begins! Garland’s first journey into the unknown, which in many ways presages all that happens in TR. That scene has probably always been the highlight of this episode for many people, but it’s crazy to look back and realize how important it was to jump-starting the overall mythology, given that it appears in probably one of the least well-regarded episodes of the entire run.

The other unlikely landmark in this one, of course, is that the name “Dougie” is uttered for the first time!

This episode in Dale’s Diet:
— He has his FBI mug out on his bed while packing, but he is likely packing it up and not drinking from it
— Cooper and Garland eat steelhead trout which they caught, drink coffee, and each roasts a marshmallow in the campfire
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Re: Episode 17

Postby Henrys Hair » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:10 pm

Doc Hayward's joviality at the wake seems particularly misplaced. He was too upset by Laura's death to perform the autopsy and was friendly with Leland. Throw in the Missing Pieces, where it seems clear he knew something wasn't right in the Palmer household and you'd think he'd be distraught, and somewhat guilt-ridden, that not only has his friend died, but his friend was also an abuser and murderer (as he may have suspected). Instead he's having a laugh about Milford weddings!

Good point about this being the only scene where Cooper & Sarah Palmer interact. It's interesting how little direct interaction some of the characters have with each other. Shelly might well think James was always cool, but they don't interact at all during the original run (they're both at the funeral and, I think, the diner scene where James meets Maddy but don't interact in either).
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Re: Episode 17

Postby mtl » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:58 am

TUNA FISH

great episode

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