The Third Day

Off Topic discussion goes here.

Moderators: BookhouseBoyBob, Jerry Horne, Annie

Forum rules
Friendly off-topic discussions are welcome.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2903
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

The Third Day

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:26 pm

Jasper wrote:
Even though it's not very original in its narrative, the first half of the series is entertaining, and there are some very good performances. Jude Law really nails it.


N. Needleman wrote:I've only watched the first (Jude Law-starring) half of The Third Day so far but I can say I think it's excellent.


Soolsma wrote:I agree with most critics that the writing is somewhat predictable and indeed generic. However, there is a certain mood and tone of this series that make it very appealing.


hopesfall wrote:
Sorry to hi-jack, but I do think it will appeal to many Lynch fans. It has been panned by a couple of critics for being rather non-eventful, and slow, so... y'know. :lol:


Didn’t want to clog up the other thread anymore with discussion of this series, but wanted to let you guys know I watched the Jude Law “season” and really enjoyed it. Thanks for talking me into it! As you all said, the narrative isn’t super original, but the visuals are really stunning, and of course the acting is superb. The subtle use of focus pulling is so precise and conveys so much, highlighting different bits of a face or an eye. Even though the narrative was kind of convoluted in the manner of so many of these puzzle-box type shows, I felt it did all pretty much fit together in the end, and I enjoyed the way it incorporated the real history of the location into its mythology. I’m excited to start diving into the twelve-hour “episode,” hopefully tomorrow if I find the time. I guess this is only available on Facebook? Kind of a bummer. I really wish HBO had put it on their streaming service with the other episodes, or at least as an extra, so I could watch it in higher quality.
User avatar
Soolsma
Posts: 1226
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:28 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: The Third Day

Postby Soolsma » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:02 am

The on location filming works very well. Most of the stuff you see is actually there, the little hamlet, the manor. Although there is no forest on Osea. I think some other exterior shots have been done elsewhere as well, to make it seem bigger, more inescapable (looking at google maps, it shouldn't be too hard to swim across). Feels similar to the way TP utilized North Bend.

I'll probably have more to say after watching the finale in a couple of days.

And yeah, I've only found the facebook stream.
Carrie Page: "It's a long way... In those days, I was too young to know any better."
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2903
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: The Third Day

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:44 pm

You weren’t kidding, Soolsma. I’m almost halfway in to “Autumn” (I watched the first of the two videos on HBO’s Facebook page), and that is a LOT of glitchiness...not just sound, but picture too. There are several points where the image just freezes for several seconds and then skips forward (in at least two cases skipping over dialogue, in the rare scene where dialogue is audible!). That is just so disappointing from a company as high profile as HBO. It really detracts from the sense of “being there” and the verisimilitude Barrett and Munden so expertly convey. To me, it seems like this is a recording of the livestream...but the comments seem to indicate that the link is the same as the actual livestream itself (the comments seem to have been made when it was live)! I thought livestream links went dead after the initial stream ended? I had assumed this was something HBO uploaded after the fact. I’m so confused. And if this was the actual livestream that went out to everyone, why is it so messed up? I really hope there’s a “clean” version that was stored somewhere. One would assume the camera was storing the footage and not just streaming it...right? Also, why doesn’t the British production company have a version online? It really seems like this release was treated by both HBO and Sky more as a one-time novelty than as art that might have any lasting value, which is a shame, because it’s quite beautiful and unique—much moreso than the “actual” series, as others have said.

I adored the Last Supper scene, and watching the tide rise over the goblets etc., and the actors working with that and going with the flow (pun very much intended)...although as an environmentalist, I was cringing as I chuckled. Hopefully someone cleaned all that crap up quickly!

Law is really astounding. After that hole-digging, I nominate him for any future remake of Cool Hand Luke. And that scene of just a closeup of emotions going over his face for what I imagine was something like ten minutes (time sort of loses all meaning in this piece)...breathtaking. Not to be gross, but there’s a little string of snot (I assume?) hanging from his nostril for several minutes, just lightly swaying every time he breathes, and it’s the most hypnotic thing I’ve seen since...well, since the fly on Pence’s head, at least.

I did spot three “cuts” in there. One was a very jarring cutaway while the men are dragging Sam from his garden...suddenly we see less than a second of Sam in a totally different location with no context. I’m assuming this was covering for some error that occurred onscreen (like an old school “technical difficulties” screen). The second is shortly after, as Sam is being dragged down the road...someone appears to wander into frame blocking the camera, and the image abruptly jumps forward to a “clean” shot of them dragging Sam down the road (presumably the livestream, like live TV, was slightly time-delayed to allow them to account for such mistakes?). And finally, right after the hole digging, a truck drives by, and we follow it...there is an abrupt jump in the truck’s journey.

BTW, for those who don’t know, the creators said in an interview that the original conception for “Autumn” was to do it as an in-person live festival/interactive theater piece, where thousands of audience members could actually go to Osea and wander around in the concert that is hyped throughout “Summer,” with Law and the other actors wandering, remaining in character and acting out more or less the story we got here. Barrett liked the idea of a TV show spilling out into the real world as interactive performance art, then returning to TV again. In fact, that was the initial concept for the project when he linked up with Law, before they even found Osea and settled on the narrative. Unfortunately, Covid rendered that idea moot...or perhaps fortunately, as we instead got something which can exist for posterity.
User avatar
Jasper
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: The Third Day

Postby Jasper » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:27 pm

I also heard that there were concerns that the causeway couldn't structurally withstand the traffic of thousands of people.

I love that causeway, and it's a great narrative device. When I first started I was doubtful that the causeway was real, but it looked so real. It was during the beginning of Autumn, still on the causeway, that I decided, yup, this 12-hour "special" is great.

I will continue to resist spoiling anything that Mr. Reindeer has yet to see. I have seen everything but the final (yet to be released) episode.

Man, is Paddy Considine good or what? I could watch an entire series focused on him ingratiatingly bullshitting people.

"I was attacked by men with bats in the woods! My head's split open!"

"Oh, no, the woods are very safe here. Sometimes the children play wiffle ball there. They call it woods-wiffle. Fun game. They must have startled you, and then you fell and hit your head on a rock and became disoriented. A lot of rocks in those woods, but this is a safe island. You just need a good cup of tea and a rest."

Paddy_Considine.jpg
Paddy_Considine.jpg (52.87 KiB) Viewed 809 times
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2903
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: The Third Day

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:01 pm

Jasper wrote:I also heard that there were concerns that the causeway couldn't structurally withstand the traffic of thousands of people.


I even thought about that in-world while watching “Summer.” I’ve driven on narrow winding one-lane rural roads before. It’s terrifying (and frustrating) when suddenly two cars are coming from opposite directions, and one has to reverse for half a mile! I guess the idea was that only foot traffic would be allowed on those dates, but as you said, who knows if the causeway could withstand it.

It was during the beginning of Autumn, still on the causeway, that I decided, yup, this 12-hour "special" is great.


Watching that sequence was the most at peace I’ve felt in a long time. It was so meditative and beautiful, just pure and desolate, a haunting mixture of modernity and timelessness. Just little things like a bird flying through in the distance or a stray branch slowly coming into focus were so lovely. Does anyone know how many camera operators there were over the course of the episode? I’m assuming they probably switched off periodically during the static shots. The omnipresent water dapples on the lens were also lovely, a constant reminder of the seat-of-the-pants high-wire-act nature of the production, and lending an almost impressionistic aspect to many of the compositions.

Man, is Paddy Considine good or what? I could watch an entire series focused on him ingratiatingly bullshitting people.


When he said Jason is a great guy, I started to laugh and decided, this guy is so full of crap. But now, I actually do think Jason is one of the most decent people on the show!

And feel free to discuss the remaining episodes, guys! Just give a warning before. I’m not sure I’ll finish Autumn before the end of the work week, let alone Winter, but I’m fixing to try!
User avatar
Jasper
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: The Third Day

Postby Jasper » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:17 pm

One thing I can say is that the glitchiness markedly diminishes in the late part of the second half. I remember this because I was paying more attention to it after it was discussed here.

Like I said, I wanted to feel like I was watching the stream live, which I wasn't, so in that way I didn't mind the glitchiness so much. There were also some glitches that I liked, like when a person walking would kind of smear across the screen. There was one glitch I liked so much that I took a screen shot, but I can't remember if it happens in the first half or second half, so I won't post it yet.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2903
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: The Third Day

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:23 pm

Jasper wrote:One thing I can say is that the glitchiness markedly diminishes in the late part of the second half. I remember this because I was paying more attention to it after it was discussed here.

Like I said, I wanted to feel like I was watching the stream live, which I wasn't, so in that way I didn't mind the glitchiness so much. There were also some glitches that I liked, l9ike when a person walking would kind of smear across the screen. There was one glitch I liked so much that I took a screen shot, but I can't remember if it happens in the first half or second half, so I won't post it yet.


There is an abstract quality to them that at certain points I quite enjoyed (similar to the effect of the water dapples on the lens, which is also somewhat distancing/pulls you out of the reality), but the glitches also detract from the directors’ intention, which I believe was complete immersion in the reality as much as possible. Aside from the moments when actual footage/dialogue was lost for several seconds, I could enjoy the “glitch edit” as its own sort of cool entropic thing, but it’s not what the creators wanted me to experience, and so it’s aggravating that we don’t have a better version.
User avatar
Jasper
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: The Third Day

Postby Jasper » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:29 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Jasper wrote:One thing I can say is that the glitchiness markedly diminishes in the late part of the second half. I remember this because I was paying more attention to it after it was discussed here.

Like I said, I wanted to feel like I was watching the stream live, which I wasn't, so in that way I didn't mind the glitchiness so much. There were also some glitches that I liked, l9ike when a person walking would kind of smear across the screen. There was one glitch I liked so much that I took a screen shot, but I can't remember if it happens in the first half or second half, so I won't post it yet.


There is an abstract quality to them that at certain points I quite enjoyed (similar to the effect of the water dapples on the lens, which is also somewhat distancing/pulls you out of the reality), but the glitches also detract from the directors’ intention, which I believe was complete immersion in the reality as much as possible. Aside from the moments when actual footage/dialogue was lost for several seconds, I could enjoy the “glitch edit” as its own sort of cool entropic thing, but it’s not what the creators wanted me to experience.


Yes, that makes sense, though they also wanted us to experience warts-and-all, or they wouldn't have streamed it live. Anyway, the number of beautiful cinematic compositions is really astounding, (and so much of it was utterly at the mercy of the weather). I can't think of this as anything other than a film. It's certainly not an episode of a cable series, "special" or not.
User avatar
Soolsma
Posts: 1226
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:28 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: The Third Day

Postby Soolsma » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:04 am

What's interesting to note is the change of team when switching from summer to winter. Philippa Lowthorpe taking over from Munden, from which I'm guessing a female director was chosen to mirror what now is Helen's narrative. Just like Kit de Waal has been put on the writing team. Also, the cinematographer and the composer have been replaced. These seem deliberate choices to give more strength to the different tone of the two POVs, one of the bordering psychotic, grieving father, and the other of the
Spoiler:
more down to earth mother, holding on tightly to the frail seams of what was once a close family.



I will wait for a decent copy of Autumn, maybe pair it with a re-watch once. Puzzle box shows like these are worth one anyway. About that; I heard certain questions are only answered in Autumn!
What was most jarring about the glitchyness for me was the sound/music, since I can really enjoy this type of soundscape music. I bet it was synthesized live as well, as Tapia de Veer certainly seems like the experimental type who could pull something like that off.
But hey, there's a decent chance Autumn is still in post production to provide a decent, slightly more polished copy for further distribution, possibly on a disk release. For sure they kept the raw data of the recordings as well. I mean, the thing was filmed ~2 weeks ago, and it's 12 hours long! No way post could go that fast. Heck; 12 hours, live, with actors, on location, this kind of scope. It was an unprecedented stunt and regarding all that, the technical flaws are no surprise.

Would love to see a making off at some point.
Carrie Page: "It's a long way... In those days, I was too young to know any better."
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2903
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: The Third Day

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:35 pm

Finished the first two hours of the second Facebook video. Two more cutaways to the shot of Sam in a blue room, presumably to cover errors?

It seems like they messed up the scene of the “soil” messiah falling off the platform into the sea. It sounds like he falls off camera, and then the shot abruptly resets to get his fall on film. I also am pretty sure I heard a woman’s voice on a radio during the first “take.” I’ve been keeping an eye out for stray earpieces and radios, as I’m assuming that’s how the various players were directed, but that’s the first slip I’ve caught.

Speaking of that platform sequence, what breathtaking scenery and framing. It looks like Law did that fall himself? I assume his insurance carrier dropped him when he took this project. :lol:
User avatar
Jasper
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: The Third Day

Postby Jasper » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:44 pm

Spoilers for the 12-hour special, up to hour eight or so.

Spoiler:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:Speaking of that platform sequence, what breathtaking scenery and framing. It looks like Law did that fall himself? I assume his insurance carrier dropped him when he took this project. :lol:


With the real Jude Law performing the actual toils of his character, there was clearly a non-zero risk of the real Jude Law actually dying. (Man, what a legendary/notorious piece of film it would have become then.) He must have needed considerable health clearance to do all of that. Even early on when they're just roughing him up a bit after he sits in the garden, he's saying, "They said they wouldn't hurt me! They said they wouldn't hurt me! PLEASE!" I was half wondering if somebody needed to rescue the actual Jude Law. It was a remarkable blurring of reality and fiction.

The sky was behaving very well above the ocean. The mud or sand on the camera wasn't. It was a dramatic moment when wondering if the water would ever come off of the lens was replaced by the realization that there's now sand or mud on the lens.

I wondered if they were frustrated by that stuff in breathtaking shots like this one:
Florence_ab.jpg
Florence_ab.jpg (57.03 KiB) Viewed 741 times


Apparently that woman is Florence of Florence and the Machine. It was a strangely creepy scene when she was alone with Sam in that field, and he's saying "I've got nothing left in me!" and she's cooing, "Oh, no..." and encouraging him onward in that very high, sweet voice. It's even creepier when we see the outcome.
Last edited by Jasper on Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2903
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: The Third Day

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:21 pm

Jasper wrote:
The sky was behaving very well above the ocean. The mud or sand on the camera wasn't. It was a dramatic moment when wondering if the water would ever come off of the lens was replaced by the realization that there's now sand or mud on the lens.

I wondered if they were frustrated by that stuff in breathtaking shots like this one:


I think it was like two minutes into the show when the first water droplet landed on the lens, and I actually panicked as if I were the camera operator. I was like, “Oh no! Now what!” I imagine they anticipated that, though, and factored in the elements (including the elements interacting with the recording equipment) as an aspect of the experience. There are some scenes—quite a lot, in fact—where I actually felt the water droplets on the lens were used very effectively by the camera operator and actually added to the compositions. But yeah, it’s a shame certain lovely shots like that are marred by dirt on the lens. Ya takes the good with the bad, I guess.
User avatar
Soolsma
Posts: 1226
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:28 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: The Third Day

Postby Soolsma » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:27 am

So I've just watched the final episode.

Spoiler:
Although the show retains most of it's qualities, narrative-wise I'm a quite disappointed. I expected, or hoped the finale to take some more interesting, mind bending turns. Perhaps the only thing that threw me off for a bit was the boy turning out not to be Nathan. Then later he recalled, or responded to what would have been his last words to his mother. But I guess it's safe to say we can all agree the guy with the cowboy hat whispered it in his ear, and the truth has become quite unambiguous at this point; it was indeed not Nathan. Mostly, it was the extra bunch of standard tropes we got that bored me. The socially apathetic child who sits in a room drawing pictures of death and decay, the 'gifted' daughter who gets easily swayed by the island's mystique and betrays her mother, then just as easily, joins her families side again. Then there were some silly dialogue choices as well, such as Helen screaming to Sam that he forgot Nathan when he first lost him, because he was on the phone for 27 minutes. This all while she left her two daughters in the hands of a stranger on an island full of cultist freaks.

Oh yeah, I sort of half expected to Jason to enter some secret tunnel underneath the island and turn some lever to ''close the causeway'' in some LOSTesque manner when he was told to do so :lol:

I guess being able to leave the island parallels being able to deal with grief or not, this is why Helen is able to swim on even though the vision of her (real) son is calling her back. The bag of money being blue-white striped was a nice touch.


Spoiler free opinion: All in all I thought the series as a whole was quite well done, in some aspects even wonderful, and in others, mostly narrative, not so much at all. The finale did not add or subtract much from that viewpoint, and hence I'm somewhat disappointed. Maybe I've come to expect too much from TV series in general, and need to respect that certain tropes can still work well for someone who hasn't spent their live watching films and tv.
Carrie Page: "It's a long way... In those days, I was too young to know any better."
Hester Prynne
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:10 am

Re: The Third Day

Postby Hester Prynne » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:27 pm

Some thoughts on the finale:

Spoiler:
The scene where Sam stabs Jason and then emerges with the gun as Helen and daughters huddle together was the most frightening scene of the series for me. Other scenes have always been shrouded with the question of whether or not what we are watching is real - this scene was much more visceral with Sam’s mania in full display - he’s not “the Father” of the island with some mystical powers. He’s just a broken-down, severely mentally ill man that has snapped and is unpredictable. Having said all that, did anyone notice that he looked exactly like the picture he saw of himself in the chapel holding the two knives except for the hair? So, did he really see that picture or imagine it? Was it just a representation of what he was feeling during a psychotic episode or was it real?

I thought the finale did a good job of balancing tying up the series but also leaving some unanswered questions for viewers to think about. That was one of them for me. I also thought it was interesting that closer towards the end, as Helen began to give into some of her grief, that she began experiencing some of the things Sam’s experienced. I, too, thought the striped bag was a nice touch - like a physical representation of the grief over Nathan - Sam hoards it and can’t let go while Helen struggles to find it so she can move on and have a better life with her daughters. Very nice at the end where she interchangeably holds Nathan’s striped shirt and the striped bag as if they are the same in her mind.

She also hears crickets as she leaves the chapel, and there’s the scene where the young boy pretending to be Nathan tells her he knew she always wanted him - or maybe he is Nathan in spirit? There’s also the vision she sees of him as she suffers hypothermia swimming her daughters back to shore. Does the island actually have some weird influence or is it just her grief coming to the surface? Lots of other things, too - will definitely go back and do a rewatch. I like how Spring is still left, so the door is open if they want to have another season, but like The Return, viewership was pretty low, so don’t know if they would do one or not. Would love to see more.
User avatar
Jasper
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: The Third Day

Postby Jasper » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:51 pm

Hester Prynne wrote:Some thoughts on the finale:


Would I be correct in thinking that you didn't watch the 12-hour special?

Return to “Hap's Diner”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests